[memoriesofmotion]

I dont know if you know exactly how complicated the ez30R's variable valve lift system is. This is a porsche system, but it is exactly the same way Subaru does it:

Then there is the fact that it also has AVCS. Ugggg. These are all about pulse width modulated hyraulic actuators. Not very fun when when you are trying to rebuild an engine. I would much rather have a simple head that I can upgrade and spin the engine to higher RPMs. The trade off would be longer rev range with an upgraded ez30D head, or a flatter power band with the ez30R. But for me, the headache is really not worth it. Consider also, that I will have 6 gears, and will be able to keep the engine in the power.

 

[memoriesofmotion]

Actual ez30r cams

 

[aesthetect]

i certainly would not have aspired to take it to the level you suggest, but since you posed the question: (although having never had my hands on one i cant fully take into account the physical limitations) it would seem possible to replace the inner/outer double tappet unit with a solid piece, basically so you eliminate the attachment pin mechanism and always run on the aggressive lobes. these lobes could be ground/welded in teh same way as any profile. maybe even leave the VVL pin mechanisms active and modify the aggressive profile as desired leaving the mild for not-race conditions. this reintroduces the question of blending and whatever requisite ECU programming though.

edit: if it did involve tuning PWM actuation signals i would completely agree to stay away.

 

[Hydrochloric]

PWM wouldn't be enough to scare me away, but then I like the idea of variable cams a LOT, and electronics is almost a career path for me. It's not like the D heads wouldn't be sufficient with a turbo and different grind cams anyway.

 

[aesthetect]

at that tight of tolerance i would :lol: i guess it depends on how the ecu messages it, could be pretty easy if you could just tweak it. but i agree i love the variable cam stuff. if anyhting id probably just do a mild regrind on the aggressive lobe and rock it just like that, with variocam active.

seems like the amount of porting that would be required for that kind of flow on the D heads could end up in significant reshaping, youd need to have some real experience P&Ping to get it right

 

[memoriesofmotion]

Why do you think the ez30D head needs porting? 220 crank HP is a crap load of power out of a non vvt, non direct injection, non VVL, 3L engine. To compare, the 2jz non turbo only got 190. I would say that this engine would be fine. I also do not see the reason that I would need different cams in it ether. The gt3076R turbo spooled fast as piss on my last 2.3L engine, I can only assume that it will also do fine on the 3L. Granted because the engine makes 220, these cams are obviously geared towards NA but my point remains valid.

One more point. These engines have a decent compression ratio too. They are like 10.3 or 10.7 to 1 right? Means fast spool, and plenty of power to use before you get there.

The thing about VVT is that it effects the power curve and drive-ability of an engine. It does not give you any more peek power. The thing that give the ez30R more power is the VVL. This is all is amazing stuff for NA engines but when you are talking forced induction, it is kinda like drops of water in the ocean. It helps, but its more headache then I am wanting to deal with. If i was trying to make the fastest subaru ever, then yes. I would spend the time, but my goal is to make a nice stout subaru that is simple to drive and simple to fix.

 

[memoriesofmotion]

@hydro

I really like vvt as well man. I am also working on a 1jz-vvti engine to go in my toyota pickup to kill mustangs here in MD. It makes the low end torque amazing for these engines. The difference is, the ecu that came with that engine is much more simple and lends its self to engine swaps much more easy. Trust me, I would go vvt and vvl ez30r if the stock ecu was not so damn difficult to fuck with.

 

[aesthetect]

If i was trying to make the fastest subaru ever, then yes. I would spend the time, but my goal is to make a nice stout subaru that is simple to drive and simple to fix.

word. 30D sounds just about right then. i keep thinking youre going for crazy boost from your earlier posts.

I really want to do this car up. If you want to see what I mean when I say do it up, refer to post #32. I don't play no games. lol


......number of games played = 0

number of games played now at 1?

 

[memoriesofmotion]

No, nothing crazy. I would like about 18lbs when I am all said and done. Nothing some rods and pistons could not accommodate.

 

[Patrick Olsen]

Supposedly one can use the EZ36 intake cams and lifters (which have AVCS but not AVLS) with the EZ30R heads. I have no personal experience with that, but that's what user Marnix on NASIOC has said.

As for modifying the cams, both the 30D and 30R use what is effectively a steel pipe with the hardened steel cam lobes glued on there. Per the Subaru Technician Reference Booklet, "The Camshafts are composed of carbon steel pipes with Sintered metal lobes. During construction, the lobes are positioned on the pipe using a sintered metal paste. The Camshafts are then baked until the paste is hardened." I've talked to both Web and Delta and they can't work on the cams because the heat of the process might/would cause the lobes to shift on the pipe, which would be bad. I also talked to Outfront Motorsports, which uses the EZ30R for sand rails, and they said they just use the stock cams, even for their big horsepower turbo builds.

 

[memoriesofmotion]

Sintered metal is just metal dust. It is actually how they make rods now. I digress, I said before, I don't think i will have any problem with the cams. Also, I am still confused why you guys think the ez30D is bad? Is it because the exhaust ports merge together in the head? You guys do know that the Ford Focus st does the same thing right? and that is 4 exhaust ports per head. And it is even turbo. So I am having a very hard time trying to figure out what you guys think is so bad about this engine.

 

[Patrick Olsen]

I don't know which "you guys" you're referring to, but I'm about to put a 30D in my car, so don't include me. (Admittedly, the 30D is Plan B, because Plan A (the 30R) has hit a serious snag in the form of Delta Cam having my heads for 2+ years.)

There's no doubt that the 30R heads have a better exhaust design, but what that actually means for performance I couldn't say. In going from the 30D to the 30R Subaru got ~30hp more out of it, without a huge change in torque (only 6ft-lb, I think), so maybe the more efficient exhaust design allowed it to breathe better at the top end? Obviously the variable cams allow Subaru to better optimize performance across the full RPM range, which makes it hard to say which changes had the bigger impact on the power output.

In a turbo application I don't imagine the different design means much of anything performance-wise, and as already pointed out, the single outlet makes the exhaust that much easier to fabricate.

 

[memoriesofmotion]

Patrick, I was not referring to you in that.

So, I don't know how many of you guys have actually put your engines together. Like grinding piston rings and checking bearing clearances and what not, but its a large amount of work. I will be honest, I leave the bore and most of head stuff for the machine shop, but in terms of putting it together, I do it. I know by experience that vvt and vvl are just more things to go wrong when building a performance engine.

Does anyone know where I can get rods for the ez30d? And are they the same as the ez30r rods?

 

[Patrick Olsen]

I think that the rods are the same. I know Pauter makes rods - one of my saved searches on Ebay is EZ30 stuff, and I always see a listing for Pauter rods for ~$1300. Since I'm not planning big power, I didn't look into upgrading, so I don't know what other options there may be out there.

 

[memoriesofmotion]

So, the trans goes in tomorrow and I have been sick in bed for the last 3 days. I need to get a new throwout bearing. Should I look for a 2004 STI part? I was thinking about just getting one from Advance auto parts.

Also, for the brakes, will the stock brake lines attach to the brembo brakes?

 

[memoriesofmotion]

So I have this type of throughout bearing, anyone know what years of what models used this part so i can search it?

 

[memoriesofmotion]

went to subaru and asked the guy about it, he said they only stock 3 kinds of bearings he brought out all three this one was part number 30502AA130 with nasioc discount it was $123.

I bought it, but I was browsing through rock auto and I found an exedy clutch kit for $195. Will this work? If so, I can bring back this release bearing and pay for most of the clutch kit. Any ideas?

 

[GeronimoRS]

went to subaru and asked the guy about it, he said they only stock 3 kinds of bearings he brought out all three this one was part number 30502AA130 with nasioc discount it was $123.

I bought it, but I was browsing through rock auto and I found an exedy clutch kit for $195. Will this work? If so, I can bring back this release bearing and pay for most of the clutch kit. Any ideas?

Exedy is the only aftermarket stock replacement clutch I like. I have tried others and the pressure plate is never right. I put a KSB04 in my outback. It was designed for the EJ251 hydraulic setup but works great with my EJ22 cable setup.

As long as that clutch matches the transmission you have you are golden.

 

[memoriesofmotion]

So this ksbo4 clutch kit will work with this JDM 6 speed?

 

[aesthetect]

Sintered metal is just metal dust. It is actually how they make rods now. I digress, I said before, I don't think i will have any problem with the cams. Also, I am still confused why you guys think the ez30D is bad? Is it because the exhaust ports merge together in the head? You guys do know that the Ford Focus st does the same thing right? and that is 4 exhaust ports per head. And it is even turbo. So I am having a very hard time trying to figure out what you guys think is so bad about this engine.

not bad, just not as good as the 30R, for all the cool gizmo reasons mentioned. but granted i would intend to run in a relatively stock NA configuration. for what its worth i had decided against it just due to the hassle of getting all the electronics working right, and my reluctance to run standalone, in favor of either a EG33 or EZ30D. but given your apparent abilities, eagerness, and intended application it seemed much more achievable so i couldnt help but get enthused about the EZ30R idea.

on that note, have you considered the EG33? would make for a cool twin turbo setup with one per bank, given the split intake manifold and all, but i dont really know all the nuances of differences between it and the 30D as far as internals go.

ive heard a lot more stories of people intending/trying to get cams ground for subaru H6s and coming up empty handed than stories of people being successful (of which none actually come to mind, though i havent looked into H6 since relegating the RS to daily driver duty).

I don't know which "you guys" you're referring to, but I'm about to put a 30D in my car, so don't include me. (Admittedly, the 30D is Plan B, because Plan A (the 30R) has hit a serious snag in the form of Delta Cam having my heads for 2+ years.)