[Jake]

257 is a different setup... Worse than the 205 in stock form imo.

 

[Brydon]

The Ej205 (usdm version) is a night and day difference from the Ej207.

207 has superior flowing heads that is capable of revving high along with a forged internal block (ver.7). Also has a better turbo compared to the 205.

The ej205 and ej207 differneces are fairly unimportant other than the compression. A ej205 will perform as well as the ej207 in almost every way. Everyone seems to love the heads but they are basically worthless. The cams have less lift from everything I've read. But they do have a different overlap. Much like USDM STI cams. USDM STI cams in a ej205 are not much different when you talk about lift and duration but the overlap is much different so the top end is way better. But this kills emissions which is where AVCS comes in. AVCS is only an emissions control device although no one will except that. The large port heads might flow better but ej205 heads can be ported larger than ej207 heads. And even if you don't port them the ej205 heads will make well over 500whp with no changes. So really who cares.

The ej207 pistons are only forged in one version and forged pistons only help bad tuners. The stock ej205 pistons have gone over 400whp without damage. So again the only real difference is compression which is nice for a daily driver but not really that big of a deal. Wish I would have but in JDM pistons on my ej205 to get up to 9:1 compression.

257 is a different setup... Worse than the 205 in stock form imo.

How so? larger stroke and bore but other than that not much different. Rod angle is higher but not crazy.

And why would you need to rev the ej257 or ej207 to 8k. There is no power there. Increasing redline doesn't make more power.

 

[Jake]

ring lands...

 

[Brydon]

ring lands...

All motors have ring lands. Care to elaborate? Unless you are trying to say the pistons explode on there own. First thing to go on ej205,ej257 and most ej207s are ringlands. Non forged pistons and bad tuning will do that to most engines.

I've seen plenty of stock ej257s do over 400whp and put 50000 miles on them with no issues.

 

[URAL]

Brydon, I was waiting for you to Chip in!

You are one of few people I want to hear an opinion from!

 

[Jake]

All motors have ring lands. Care to elaborate? Unless you are trying to say the pistons explode on there own. First thing to go on ej205,ej257 and most ej207s are ringlands. Non forged pistons and bad tuning will do that to most engines.

I've seen plenty of stock ej257s do over 400whp and put 50000 miles on them with no issues.

I've seen plenty of stock ej257s eat themselves alive on a stock tune with stock parts.

Pretty sad that the WRX motor had better pistons. YAY SOA.

Most things to go on 205s are rod bearings...

 

[Brydon]

Brydon, I was waiting for you to Chip in!

You are one of few people I want to hear an opinion from!

Here is my opinion then:

ej205 - Cheap reliable motor that is plenty of fun but a little low on compression for my taste. But cab legal
ej207 - Great driver but unless you shit $100 dollar bills then I don't see the point. Also not carb legal without shitting more money.
ej257 - Still fairly expensive but a nice engine for daily driving, carb legal, easy to get parts.
ej255 - great alternative to ej257 for a lot less. Get a bigger turbo and you are in ej257 territory or better. Also carb legal and etc
Hybrid - common ej257 with ej205 heads. Best bang for your buck on a ej205 swap. higher compression, higher power and easy to get parts. Also carb legal.

ej20g/k - Use to be worth it because they were cheap. Now they are the same price as ej205 swap so I don't see the point. If you have a OBDI subaru and find a super deal then maybe.

I've seen plenty of stock ej257s eat themselves alive on a stock tune with stock parts.

Pretty sad that the WRX motor had better pistons. YAY SOA.

Most things to go on 205s are rod bearings...

If a 100% stock ej257 killed itself then the dealer would be happy to replace it for free of charge. Never seen that happen. I know the 08 STI had tune issues that were changed by the dealers for free. Others might have as well. But this is changed by SOA at the dealer.

Technically speaking the ej205 pistons are worse then the ej257 pistons. ej205 is cast and the ej257 is hyper-cast (or whatever they call it). Just like the ej22t shortblocks that everyone thinks are gods gift to engines. I've owned all of the above with no issues on any of them.

 

[Rickdaddy]

I heard that the USDM 2.5L (EJ257) can rev up to 8Krpms no problem and it's been tested, of course that wasn't the stock turbo.

I heard it can rev to the moon and back!

 

[Sarra]

As was stated earlier in the thread, I don't see the point of revving to infinity and beyond either. I'm doing an EJ20G block + EJ25D crank + forged rods + forged 9:1 pistons + EJ205 heads (ported with staggered valves) + cams + a TD04HL-19T

I'm hoping for something that will pull like a freight train from 2,500 RPM to 6,000 RPM, and will work really well with longer gearing.

If I really wanted to do a proper high power motor, it would be an EJ207 with AVCS, bigport heads, an EJ257 crank, forged internals, and twincharged, but my poo isn't made of platinum, so that isn't gonna happen for a while.

And speaking of the EJ207, when using the EJ205 ECU to control the EJ207, isn't there an AVCS controller kit available? Or is that a CARB no no? I hardly pay attention to that because I think California should be turned into the largest Nuclear test ground, but whatever.

 

[Jake]

It is a known issue and proven fact that the 257 ringlands will give in an all stock environment.

Piston material means dick when you've got a poor design

 

[JWalker]

6, 1/2 dozen. Most people like to rev high. Some guys like the torquey low-end. Find two friends, one with the ej257 and one with a 205/207... go for a ride and see which one you like more.

The only reason I'd take the ej257 over the 2.0 liter is for spool characteristics. The extra displacement will spool a larger turbo faster than the 2.0... I think ultimately they have more potential for raw power. You don't see a lot of people putting gt30/35/40s on 2.0 liters. It's almost always a 2.5 liter, or bored/sleeved to be even bigger.

I'm lucky in that I can do just that... Driving john2.5rs's 207 swap vs my 257 illustrates the differences in the 2 powerplants. In a drag race there's not much difference. In a road race I think the 207 is in it's element. But I enjoy the fact that my engine even off boost provides ample power. The sound of a 207 though makes my jealous.

 

[imprezaL2345]

hmm i drive a EJ255 and a EJ18T

EJ255:
- much better in the city
- no need to rev it alot to get going
- less obnoxious
- pushed back in the seat more

EJ18T:
- feels slow everyday
- have to downshift to do an overtake i would just give it some gas in the WRX

but its fun as shit when do floor it. the sound, the feeling. Its awesome.

its just a matter of where you want your powerband. I bet i get better gas mileage in the L from how much i baby it

 

[Zor]

sigh.......

Everyone needs to remember you don't have an INLINE 4 banger. if your going to go for higher revving you need to switch over to a dry sump system. the wet sump system CANNOT handle high revving engines. And no a bigger oil pick up will not work because it all has to go threw the SAME SIZE hole in the block as the stock one does.

 

[darkphoenix]

I got the Outback because of the torque. I have had high revving (DSMs and Nissans) and I prefer torque all day long. As someone stated, torque wins races!

Holeshot FTMFW!!

 

[Splinter]

if your going to go for higher revving you need to switch over to a dry sump system. the wet sump system CANNOT handle high revving engines. And no a bigger oil pick up will not work because it all has to go threw the SAME SIZE hole in the block as the stock one does.

It has zero to do with wet sump or dry sump and everything to do with the internal design of the engines oil passages.

Race cars run dry sump systems because of oil slosh problems under high g-cornering.


Most subaru engines will rev to 8000 with no oiling problems. Beyond there, you're getting into dangerous territory.

My engine tachs out at 7800. Stock crank, stock oil pump, I just upgraded the pickup and pan to help deal with oil slosh. That's what killed my motor.

 

[JSpecGC8]

LOL Hard cornering + stock oil pump on Subaru has some bad effects

 

[Splinter]

LOL Hard cornering + stock oil pump on Subaru has some bad effects

Like cracking the #1 rod journal? Yea. :devil:

 

[Brydon]

It is a known issue and proven fact that the 257 ringlands will give in an all stock environment.

Piston material means dick when you've got a poor design

The design is no different than any of the other engines. The material is stronger. Please prove me wrong. I've had all of these motors apart first hand. I've tuned stock engines to 500whp with no issues. This is one of those un-truths put out into the community to help bad tuners feel better about themselves. If this was true then Subaru would have recalled many many cars. They however have put out updated ecu mapping for new cars that vary the tune slightly.

On nasioc you see a lot of people say I can't believe my shit blew up and they have a ebay intake and exhaust and try to run 20psi with no tune. By a retarded old GSX if you want stupid and simple. Trust me I've owned two.

LOL Hard cornering + stock oil pump on Subaru has some bad effects

Then why do so many race teams run the stock pump? I really think it is light knock that kills most of these engines but it's hard to know for sure. There are plenty of competitive race teams that run the stock oiling system for years without issue. Makes me wonder.

Subaru has also tried to change things but always end up going back to the same old setup.

If you run a accusump, that should be all you need for the just in case oil pressure drop. These engines are awful for oil return so there is always a chance of sucking up a little air in the system. But when the oil return is as low as the pan it's hard to keep things draining.

 

[outlwstr]

You are lucky you can rev that high. Now put it to use. I reccomend an 18g or 20g for your motor. Also look into an EWG to keep the power and boost pushing all the way up intill redline. DAMN that would be a awesome vehical

 

[Zor]

It has zero to do with wet sump or dry sump and everything to do with the internal design of the engines oil passages.

Race cars run dry sump systems because of oil slosh problems under high g-cornering.


Most subaru engines will rev to 8000 with no oiling problems. Beyond there, you're getting into dangerous territory.

My engine tachs out at 7800. Stock crank, stock oil pump, I just upgraded the pickup and pan to help deal with oil slosh. That's what killed my motor.

it does tho, after you go past 8k you need oil to be forced into the motor to keep it running.