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Discussion Starter #1
Is what is moral commanded by God because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by God?

And no, there is no "both" option.
 

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Is there a neither option for those of us who don't believe in God? Morals are established by society really.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
JC said:
Is there a neither option for those of us who don't believe in God? Morals are established by society really.
If you're an atheist, then you'd logically choose option one.
 

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Morals can exist independent of religious beliefs.

I consider myself both an agnostic and a highly moral person. Religion has long had a stranglehold on the concept of morality, and yet anyone can establish a moral code for himself or herself based on the values that person holds dear. Reject the basic notion that God is a prerequisite for morality and decide for yourself what you believe to be right and wrong, and you're at the basis of moral philosophy. This is not a new topic, but it's an endlessly rich one.
 

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spoon said:
Morals can exist independent of religious beliefs.

I consider myself both an agnostic and a highly moral person. Religion has long had a stranglehold on the concept of morality, and yet anyone can establish a moral code for himself or herself based on the values that person holds dear. Reject the basic notion that God is a prerequisite for morality and decide for yourself what you believe to be right and wrong, and you're at the basis of moral philosophy. This is not a new topic, but it's an endlessly rich one.

on point. couldnt have said it better
 

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Discussion Starter #9
JC said:
:wtf: I'd logically chose the one without God in it.
The argument pre-dates any Christian faith, so you can substitute Flying Spaghetti monster in there for fun.


Depending upon what type of atheist you are, you can still say "suppose there is a higher power....." in order to answer the question. Not being able to make a supposition (even a outlandish one) so as to continue with a discussion is........... a bad thing.

The first option is an option for an atheist because it would mean that God did not create morality, does not define it, and (perhaps) has no effect on it- thus rendering God either irrelevant or (logically) non-existant.
 

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Trypticon said:
The argument pre-dates any Christian faith, so you can substitute Flying Spaghetti monster in there for fun.

Depending upon what type of atheist you are, you can still say "suppose there is a higher power....." in order to answer the question. Not being able to make a supposition (even a outlandish one) so as to continue with a discussion is........... a bad thing.

The first option is an option for an atheist because it would mean that God did not create morality, does not define it, and (perhaps) has no effect on it- thus rendering God either irrelevant or (logically) non-existant.
I'm a no higher power athiest. Your question is what's called a false alternative. Which means you have "excluded relevant possibilities without justification." (I always keep my logic text book from college handy :)) It's like asking me what's the best car is the world a Camaro or a Mustang and then saying it's a bad thing that I think a 911. I'm capable of arguing for either but this is a discussion forum not a debate class. We're not here to learn to argue, we're here to express our views. Your implied question is where do morals come from? My answer is that they are a societal notion, much like religion and God are.

Morals of someone growing up in the US might be much different from someone in Iran for example. Is it because God has ordained each group of people a different set of beliefs? No, it's because society evolution has taken a different path for each group. It has absolutely nothing to do with God.
 

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I agree with JC. What could be moral in one society may certainly be imoral in another. For examle: An eskimo tribe leaves their people to die when they become incapable to care for themselves and others. That obviosly seems imoral to us, but to them it's what is best for their tribe. Religions all have different morals and beliefs, some are similar, some are not. For example, the Islamic religion allows having up to 4 wives, Mormans believe in having as many wives as you can care for. Where as most other religions and societies believe otherwise. Saying you have morals is such a general statement. What could be right to you could be a ta-boo to me. Religion has to many loopholes to be considered moral, that's why I do what I feel is right to me. BTW, I'm also Agnostic.
 

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Ya know, I think a Flying Spagetti Monster would make be behave quicker than eternal damnation.


Religion is a man made way to control the masses.

Religoin never appealed to me. The universe is so much larger than all this trivial "Don't eat shellfish or pork" or "Don't eat meat on Lent" or "15 Hail Marys for cursing"

It's crap, all of it. It comes down to balance and harmony of energy.


I just make amends with the person, appologize or increase my intake of good Karma.

Praying won't balance out the negative energy, only more good energy can offset it.
 

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SubyRSAWD said:
I agree with JC. What could be moral in one society may certainly be imoral in another. For examle: An eskimo tribe leaves their people to die when they become incapable to care for themselves and others. That obviosly seems imoral to us, but to them it's what is best for their tribe.
I think that applies to today's America also. Maybe today's world? not sure haven't been to other countries =P
 

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i would have to vote for the first option morals are moral not just because they were handed down by god. i think it does help make them more moral (if thats posible) but im not much of a goddly person.
i live my life by a simple code
If i can go to sleep at night and make peace with the days events then im doing fine
 

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i personally do believe in God (higher power) but i am not religious as in i dont go to church regularly. I am more spiritual as in my own beliefs include God but also good karma and and good set of morals. i kinda agree that morals are set by society more than by god himself.
 

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Morals came before the chicken AND the egg.

And before someone came up with the idea of god as well.

Hence Option 1.

Chris
 

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I'm a sorta Agnostic Karma'ist personally. I believe in a higher energy, I don't think it 'controls' us in any way tho..

Morality... it's personal.. I think 'men' have used it to define control, and thats why Morality is such a maligned Ideal.
 

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Trypticon said:
Is what is moral commanded by God because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by God?

And no, there is no "both" option.
neither. morals and morality are creations of women and weak people to keep the strong from following natural tendencies and taking what they want.
 
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