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what keeps causing me to spin

  • cold race tires

    Votes: 6 14.0%
  • worn race tires on the back

    Votes: 6 14.0%
  • new alignment specs

    Votes: 5 11.6%
  • the loose nut behind the wheel

    Votes: 26 60.5%
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Discussion Starter #1
ok, lets see who can figure it out. so far there have been 2 auto-x's this year with 3 runs each. when i can get a clean run, i'm competitive (in GS and PAX), but this year i've been having problems with gross amounts of oversteer, i.e. spinning. i've never spun at an auto-x before. so the question is, what its it.

1. its been down right cold for the two auto-x's this season. i'm running BFG G-Force R1s with one season on them (not by me, though i ran a used set last year too). certainly, they don't like the cold, but enough to cause me to spin so frequently?

2. like i said, they are used. i put the most worn tires on the back, and of course, it is rear traction i'm having issues with.

3. i got an alignment for this season. among other things, this includes 1/8" toe out in the rear. this makes for nice handling on street tires (and rally tires, for that matter) however it may be too much for the race tires.

4. as with so many things, its the driver, and i just suck and should quit my bitching.
 
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well to eliminate the tires, rotate them and run again. sheesh. slacker. :)

Oh. and heat them up.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
i really don't want the worn ones up front, since its the fronts that take most of the load. i've been happy with front end grip, considering the weather.

Oh. and heat them up.
tell that to mother nature. 40-50 degrees is just not proper for the big R.
 

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Its the temp. I never got any grip from Rs when it was that cold. But boy, when it was 85 out, they stuck to the asphalt like teenie boppers on a boy band.
 

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Gte a heat gun or a travel hair dryer that can hook up to your cig. lighter. Heat up the tires before your runs. It helps a lot
 

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10th Warrior:

What tire pressures are you running? Also, you didn't mention anything about struts (stock, adjustable etc.)

Where are you spinning? In slaloms, or on entry to tight turn-arounds, or?

The toe-out on the rear is pretty aggresive, even for autocross.

Chris H.
www.subrew.com
 

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Discussion Starter #9
well, the suspension is stock. if i had adjustable struts, i would have mentioned my settings ;) pressures are 40/38. i run 40/36 on tighter courses, but i haven't had any of those yet this season. i have run these tires before and i found these to be quite successful pressures. granted, that was before the alignment and they may need some tweaking to work with the new alignment, but i need heat to figure that stuff out :curse: anyway, as to where i'm spinning, its always in a transition when the car is unsettled. the first time was in the middle of a slolam with an offset cone, the second time was at the end of a very fast slolam with braking zone to a fast right (the slalom ended on a left). the final time is somewhat hard to explain. it was a tight 90 right, but it was coming at the end of a long sweeping right (sort of). anyway, the car wasn't settled in the braking zone. this one really shocked me though, espeacially since i was trying to just get a clean run. of course, other slaloms (and the same slaloms on other runs) as well as plenty of other unsettled braking zones have not netted a spin.

about the toe. yes, its aggressive, though it is very nice with street tires. the car is much more sensitive to trail-braking and LTO (and left foot braking on gravel) but not to the point of creating large scale rotation. it just changes the yaw of the car a bit and then catches itself. however, the race tires might be responding differently. i don't know. i'm going to have to wait until it gets warm so i can start eliminating some potential confounds.
 

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jeezus christ no wonder your spinnign.

i think we only ran 36/38 on those last year.

what are you doing to my tires!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
i think the pressures are ok. like i said, i had another used set last year and found they worked well. also, there is another RS guy (not on any BBs) who is damn quick and he used to run the R1s as well at 40/40 and he was damn quick. of course, he had an alignment, but i don't know the specs. as far as me abusing your ex-tires, lets put it this way; when i get a clean run i'm in the top 10 on pax :)
 

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I think it's a combination of your alignment, pressures and possibly driving style. The toe-out in the back is a bit much, though not out of the question if you're running a bit of neg camber back there. What's the front camber and toe set to?

Your pressure is okay up front, but maybe a bit high in the rear with the toe. I used those (your) tires at Peru last year for the CenDiv finale and ran 40/38 with uber-camber at all ends. No toe though (or rear bar). This put the tire print flat at high side loading and let me keep the pressure higher If you don't have alot of camber, or bar in back, the tire will run well out on it's side where the toe-out will run you right around with little provacation.

I don't know your driving style, but that can lead to spinning for sure. I've been through the spin-cycle enough times to admit that over exuberance or excessive mashing will help you swap ends in a hurry.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
well, about my driving style, i have never spun at an event before, which is why this year has kind of caught me out. besides, ask ryan how well i can go-kart :p

the rest of the alignment specs are:
-1 degree front camber
0 front toe
back camber is non adjustable, but IIRC its around -1 or -1.5 right now.

i agree with you, its probably a combination of several factors, and with the weather warming up i will hopefully be able to determine what the biggest factor is.
 

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10th Warrior said:
well, about my driving style, i have never spun at an event before, which is why this year has kind of caught me out. besides, ask ryan how well i can go-kart :p

the rest of the alignment specs are:
-1 degree front camber
0 front toe
back camber is non adjustable, but IIRC its around -1 or -1.5 right now.

i agree with you, its probably a combination of several factors, and with the weather warming up i will hopefully be able to determine what the biggest factor is.
Yea I saw your driving style that's why i voted for the loose nut behind the wheel who needs a wrench :)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
rpone605 said:


Yea I saw your driving style that's why i voted for the loose nut behind the wheel who needs a wrench :)
hey, its not my fault those things only have brakes on the back. besides, i was going for my giles panizzi impersonation :D
 

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10th Warrior said:


hey, its not my fault those things only have brakes on the back. besides, i was going for my giles panizzi impersonation :D
More like the hey that's what the wall impersonation. My hands still get cold thinking about that day.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
updato desu ne

well, it seems two of you were right. we finally had a bright and sunny auto-x so i could start testing theories. i ran my pressures as 40/40 and the car handled quite well. well enough to give me 2nd in GS and 6th out of ~150 on PAX :) now that the tires have some heat to work with, i'm generating quite a bit of grip with no signs of oversteer what-so-ever.
 

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Same thing happened to me a couple weeks ago. I'd never spun at an auto-x event, but then all of a sudden, I spun twice in one run.

At my next event, I lowered the pressures in the tires by about 4 pounds front and rear (from what I was running at the first event), and I was doing MUCH better. I moved up two places overall in the standings, and I never lost control of the car (even when I induced a drift at 80mph!) :)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
(even when I induced a drift at 80mph!)
that's a crazy fast auto-x!!! i think the fastest i've ever gotten is ~60mph on our fastest courses. this weekend at our divisional event, i doubt i got much above 40 (it was a verytechnical course). but i won my class ;D ok, ok, there wasn't anyone really good there, but i was only a 10th of a second behind the second place DS guy (who usually runs GS in his 99 RS, but was in his friend's WRX).
 
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