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Discussion Starter #1
OK...I had it all figured out which class I was going to run next season. I'm currently in STS and was debating between STS (on Falken Azenis) or STR (on Kumho Ecsta V700). Well I had finally decided to shoot for STR.

That all changed however, when the SCCA recently announced that the STR class is being REPLACED with STX (Street Touring eXperimental or Street Touring wrX depending on who you ask... :lol: ). STX is a street-tire class (like STS is) that allows STS mods + more and allows cars that aren't allowed in STS (up to 5.1 liters NA or 2.0 liters turbo, but they still can't be 2-seater or sports car-based).

The mods I had planned out to add over the off-season would pretty much prep my car to near the limit in STS/STR. Finish my suspension (front sway bar + rear strut brace + front camber/castor plates), add some power mods (catback exhaust + lightened pulley kit), and tires for my 15" alloys. That figures about $1700 for STS or $1900 for STR (I've already saved about a grand and the tax return should take care of the rest).

Based on that I should run STS. But if I want to add any additional mods during the season, I'm virtually out of STS legal mods and I don't want to change classes mid-season.

I could run STX which allows a bit more mods but also would likely have stiffer competition (due to the changes in allowed cars). Also it's a brand new class and is regional-only (not that I plan to run Nationals, but it'd be nice to keep the option open). STX allows STS mods plus motor mounts (from manufacturer or motorsports division of manufacturer only...so STi mounts are ok), high-flow cat (within 6 inches of stock location), one limited slip diff (unless you are AWD then you have to stay stock on your diffs), fixed back seats (not an issue for me really), calipers and rotors are free except they must attach to the stock mounting points. I was pretty happy that STX would allow me to run WRX brakes but then I remembered they won't fit under my 15" alloys anyway. :( I would definitely take advantage of the motor mount allowance in STX (and possible the high flow cat allowance). Actually now that I write it out only two mods in STX affect me unless I switch to 16" autocross rims...so that's probably not worth the increased competition. (Check out page 13 of the February 2002 FastTrack (available on http://www.scca.org) for more info on STX.)

The third option is DSP...this would allow me to run the R-compounds I was looking forward to, and it includes STX's mods plus allows diffs (even for AWD cars) and clutches/flywheels (I think). I did discover that my times in STS were actually pretty competitive with DSP over the last year and R-compounds might even put me out front (several times I was only a second behind the 1st place car in DSP). Competition can be much stiffer in DSP against cars that are actually prepped to full SP levels though so that's a consideration.

The fourth option is that I magically acquire a few extra thousand bucks, go forced induction and jump to SM but I don't see that happening right now... :lol:

So what do you guys think? :D
 

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YOu should find out what class Steven is going to run, and then run something else. It is nothing against you, but he just always seems to screw you...take the TSD rallye for instance...:biggest:

Actually, in STX can you put a flywheel in? Since you can use a new clutch, I don't know why you couldn't do the flywheel too.

If you finish your, put in engine and tranny mounts, do a complete header back exhaust system, lightened crank pulley, lightened flywheel if legal, Good Tires, and an engine tuning system (I am looking at the unichip module to find out if it will work), I think you could very easily compete against a WRX or a Mustang. Remember, if you can go up to 5.1 liters, that can put you up against some high hp cars that do fit in the rules. I wouldn't worry though. I think we all beat almost every Mustang that was at the autocrosses we attended last year.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You misread...SP allows the clutch/flywheel not STX. :)

I agree with the Steven part. Some autocrosses where I would have been in second place by about a second had I run DSP, he would have been first by full second or more!

I still think my Whiteline spring issue (there's a thread about it on the iClub in the Suspension... area) is part of the reason I can't catch him. Upon measuring I found that my ride heights were FL 362mm, FR 362mm, RL 325mm, RR 317mm!!! That's an average of 41mm difference front to rear. Whiteline claims ride heights of 345mm and 340mm (only 5 mm difference). I didn't realize how big a difference that was until I converted it to inches. My rear ride height is 1.6 inches LOWER than the front!!! Who knows what that's doing to my handling! I've contacted Whiteline but I figure with Christmas it'll probably be a little while before I get a response.

Get this though...Thom was only 3/100ths of a second behind Steven at Racefest!!! On stock struts and springs!!! I was about a second behind Thom. (Still safely in third though.)
 

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Templar said:
YOu should find out what class Steven is going to run, and then run something else. It is nothing against you, but he just always seems to screw you...take the TSD rallye for instance...:biggest:
I don't know if I should :D at that comment or :( at it. I would like to think that Shane has become a much better driver because of the competition I have given him. There have been a couple of times that things turned a little foul, like letting Bill drive my car, but I can't help it if he improved his times and moved into 2nd place. As far as the rally goes, there were no classes, so?? Personally, I would like for Shane to start beating me, therefore providing me with the same challenges I've provided him. I don't think you meant that as a personal attack, but it sure made me sound like a real asshole.

That said: Shane, I will either be running STS or DSP or FSP next year. It's up in the air, because they are trying to offically class the Legacy in SP since it has fallen into NOC in DSP up until now, and it also depends on the tires I buy and if I get a rollbar in and run the car in solo 1's or not.
 

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Even without the clutch flywheel, you can still get some good power to the ground with a full header back exhaust, and engine management. Email me sometime and we can talk about some ideas I have for getting some good, legal power out of the 2.5 for STS/X.

Yes, I think you may have a spring issue. When you road with me the other day you commented about how much flatter I corner than you. With your struts set on 3/8 or 4/8 you should corner just as well. Heck I am on the cheapest settup you can get for our cars right now with the version 5/5zigen combo. However if you really want to do it and keep your AGXs, get a refund on the whitelines, since they are defective, and get a set of Ground controls at around 350/275. The car should handle like a kart then.

By the way..I am sorry if my earlier comments sounded bad of Steven. they were really meant as a joke. Steven is not an ass, he is just a forking fantastic driver with a car that is supremely well balanced.
 

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:stupid: Bora, when you mod your car, I'm going to find out what class you're running and then run away! :roflmao: :roflmao:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Templar:
Well Whiteline has supposedly taken care of this issue in the past with a replacement set of rear springs that is 35mm longer than the standard part (it seems to be a difference between some US-spec Imprezas and JDM/Euro models that causes it, not defective Whiteline parts). So I'm going to give Whiteline a fair chance at resolving it first which I believe they will.

Pleiades
I completely agree with your statement. I firmly believe that my times have gotten MUCH better mostly because I have never actually led my class, thus I always have a goal to shoot for (ie, kicking your ass :lol: ). I feel I am far faster than I was at my first event and have you to thank for a large portion of it (plus Steve Eckerich for that great autocross school!). That said, the desire to place first is quite appealing and moving to a different class makes that much easier...hehe. I still won't be satisfied until I beat you fair and square...but that'll just keep me motivated. :)

Turk
Gotta agree with Pleiades on this one...you're too fast already... :lol:

The central part of my decision actually focuses around the R-compound vs street-tire delimma. If the Azenis wasn't so cheap, it wouldn't be an issue...R-compound all the way, but the Azenis is only $62 a tire in the size I plan to run (205/50-15). The Ecsta V700 is $110 a tire in the same size! (Which is cheaper than the V700 Victoracer in the same size.) Basically it ends up $320 vs $510 with the better grip going to the more expensive option.

Ugh...decisions, decisions...
 

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Hell, my dilemma is just trying to find tires with which to run on period. I don't really care about the class, I just want to drive. Winning is nice, but its something I don't really worry about. I don't have the cash for mods, don't have the funds for tires, so I scrounge cast offs from the tire pits of hell (Steven) and do the best I can. Sometimes its good enough...

The STX class sounds interesting, but about the only thing I can bring to the party is 17" rims. I might just try to wrap some rubber around a set of 16" and stay in the stock class... oh wait, that damned titanium shift knob knocks me out of that class. :mad:

If ya'll are doing another points run next year, maybe I'll just run AM so as not to screw anyone out of a points paying finish. :D
 

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Tim K said:
If ya'll are doing another points run next year, maybe I'll just run AM so as not to screw anyone out of a points paying finish. :D
:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:

Wouldn't that be nice! :)
 

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Oh crap! No STR. That ruins my plans. With my few mods, that puts me solidly in the STS camp. A new suspension isn't in my budget. Enough of my selfish sniveling...

Your driving is better every time I see you. I think you can do well in whatever class you choose. That being said, STX might be the place for you if you're not staying in STS. We can usually outmaneuver those high HP cars that may be in the class. Based on your description of your planned changes, I think you you'll do very well in whatever class you pick. Refine your suspension set up and take Kent's advice on power and you're there.
 

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Damn what did everone move over to this forum. With that said I guess I will be running in SM, if there still is that class, havn't been checking up on all the changes to the SCCA stuff. I don't know any other class I can run in with those front brakes I have that actually has cars running in them. I don't want to get in a class and get bumped cause there is no other competitors in it.

And as far as tires goes I'm going with the AZenis myself since I don't have the money to blow on r compounds.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
ImprezedRS said:
{...}With that said I guess I will be running in SM, if there still is that class, havn't been checking up on all the changes to the SCCA stuff. I don't know any other class I can run in with those front brakes I have that actually has cars running in them. I don't want to get in a class and get bumped cause there is no other competitors in it.{...}
Yes, SM still exists (along with SM2 which is SM for any car that is not allowed in SM (e.g., 2-seaters, sports car based vehicles, too high of displacement, etc.)).

If other mods don't kick you out then the brakes are legal in STX (STX allows non-stock size brake upgrades as long as they use the stock mounting points).

---

Thanks for the compliments, Thom. :) There are only really 2 deciding parts at the moment (R-compounds for DSP, motor mounts for STX). Oh well...I know the parts I'm definitely buying anyway, so I'll just get those now and figure the rest out later... :lol:

The only reason I'm trying to decide so early, is that I want to make sure I run the same class all season for points. If I do everything I listed in my first post then I'm pretty much maxed out in STS (except for headers). That's why I'm even considering STX and DSP in the first place. Yes with that list I'm most competitive in STS, but will I be content with that class all season?

Decisions suck. :lol: :D
 

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Well I'm legal for last years STS class except for the 4 pot brakes and Anti Lift Kits. So would the Anti Lift Kits be legal for this STX class? Also how about a full exhast Headers back with High flow cats? and what about COBB Spicy cams? I plain on having those before autocrossing starts up again.
 

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I just recently read, very thoroughly for the first time the SCCA rule book. Oddly enough, Morrettes will kick you out of SMod, don't ask me why, but it states that headlights must be stock, and in stock position. The brake duct work you did is also illegal in SM, and may be in STX. The ducts themselves are not of a legal configuration, and you cannot cut holes in, or remove your fender wells. I have not seen the complete rules on STX yet. Your effective class should probably be C-Prepared. Yes you can cma in Prepared, but you cannot turbo, or supercharge. Once you do either of those, if you keep the Morrettes and the brake duct work, you will go straight to Emod.

I thought you were going to get rid of your RS anyway?
 

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I was thinking of it but I decided to keep it for now. I have plans to build atleast a 13sec 1/4 automatic RS.

Ok So I'm really confused on this class issue now. I don't see how the morettes would be illegal. They don't let anymore air through than the others and since I wouldn't benefit from it since my intake sits under the hoodscoop anyways. And as far as brake ducts that is just plain stupid. They really don't help on that short of a course.

So then those two things would be the only thing keeping me out of STX, the brake ducts and Morettes?


Also could someone answer this question, can I still autocross with shaved door handles? This is a deciding factor if I'm going to get it done or not, I got all the electronics done just got the shaving part left to do.
 

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Sorry, I forgot about the door handles. You should be able to run either STS, or STX with them. I do not recall any rule preventing it. You could probably take the brake ducts out and tape up the fender hole and run STX or SM with no legality issues.

Yes I do realize that it is silly about the Morrettes, but I am just reading what the rules stated. It was very clear that stock headlights had to be used in their stock position.
 

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Yeah I guess I could ask one of the Locals about it, maybe Martin if I can find his email, oh wait didn't he quit his position or was that someone else?

But what I think though that is the big deal about the headlight issue is that air can go through the crack between the lense and shroud. But I think if I just tape up the holes in the fender and on bumper and tape up the lights they shouldn't say anything about them then I don't think. I mean there is now big weight avandtage with the morettes other than like 2 pounds total difference. I just need to know something about the handles really, since I have my chance soon to get them done cheap.
 
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