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2x01 2.5RS, 97 gm4
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, so I will start from the beginning of my swap.

I bought my 2.5rs with bad HG. In November of 2007 I purchased an ej20g from ECS. I did the install myself. I worked on the car at my family's friend's shop. In January I had to take the car out of the shop because he needed room and I only worked on it maybe 4-5 hours a week, that was my first swap. So there it is. I had a car sitting with ej20g installed and everything pretty much hooked up. I also had a 2000 2.5rs that was totaled and used for parts. I tried selling both of the cars because I had no place to store them. Ds1 offered to finish the swap for me or for the buyer of my project. I took both of the cars to Ds1. Totaled car paid for half of the wiring cost and any swap labor. I took the cars there in the middle of January of 2008. Guys at the shop were really nice and said it will be done by the beginning of February, end of February at the latest. Also said that they will do few other things (custom cold air intake with the tubing that I already had, a sheet with step by step feature mods and descriptive invoice). I told them to do quality work and to not rush.
So I went home and waited....and waited...and waited... I called them once or twice a week to check on things. I kept getting the old "we will give you a call tomorrow or (a certain time, like Friday or next week). I HAVE NEVER HAD THEM CALL ME! I also sent countless e-mails/pm's and had no replies. Wiring was sent to ECS. It was there for TWO MONTHS OR MORE, they made that "bro spoof" video about it. If you cant take your job seriously then DON'T DO IT. That is disrespectful, taking forever and making fun of your shit and throwing it around the shop in front of a camera and then posting it online. Also not giving the heads up on how much it will cost to do. They charged almost $2000 (wiring was messed up). They told me that a lot of it was missing when I bought the motor from them also I could have bought a merged harness from a member on here that totaled his ej20g 2.5rs. It is disrespectful to: Throw around an item worth 2k. That is really crappy.
After Ds1 got the harness they said it will take them a week or two to finish the car (put wires in and the dash).
I kept calling and calling and kept getting the "we will have it done next week" or "we will call you". No calls or replies to my pm's. I kept getting bills from them, but no invoices. I paid them because I wanted to be nice. I paid over $2000 in cash and before I went to get it I got another bill for $800 which I refused to pay. I haven't gotten a single invoice. Yeah I know, I'm dumb, but I trusted this Subaru performance shop, which is popular and has a good reputation.
I finally get ready to go get my "FINISHED!!??" car. That was in the middle of JUNE of 2008. I talked to them on Thursday, Friday and I called on Saturday morning right before I left to get it and they tell me that the car smokes really bad and that the motor is loud and will need a rebuilt. That was the first time I heard that, right before I go get the thing?!! I said screw it. I will get it anyway because if I don't now, I probably never will.
I got there and what can I say, they are good at speaking nicely. So it sounds all legit. I was told it runs bad because of bad/old gas. I drove the car and it was 100 times slower than my parent's 02 auto civic. I hooked up my remote for the pfc and the car was not boosting. At all. I am sure it will boost with bad gas, I know that for a fact because I have bought a car that sat for three years untouched and it boosted right away. Oh and the guy I talked to most and that seemed to know more about the car wasn't there, and I told him a week in advance that I will be there on that day.
I get home and started to work on it. Found out that I was missing a lot of things from my car. Later on I found out that it had a seized turbo, which I checked before installing the motor, turbo spun freely and wasn't loose.
So I was missing parts and I found out that I had paid roughly $90 for forged cooling tank and it wasn't installed. Also didn't get any of the other items (invoices, list of mods, custom cold air intake, heat wrapped or shield piping/turbo). Some of the things didn't work in the car. So basically the car wasn't finished. I called them and they told me that they will ship all of the items to me, and that I should get them at the end of that week or beginning of the next week. I got my shipment...................2 MONTHS LATER!!! and i didn't get half of my stuff: my invoices or a paper with motor rebuild info, power door lock switch (my power door locks don't work anymore and they did before I dropped off the car). They offered to rebuild my motor with free labor just so I can be happy. YEAH RIGHT, it will take them another 6 MONTHS.
So there it is, I am sure I am forgetting stuff on here, but I don't have a single invoice, car wasn't finished, never responded to my pm's/emails, never called back. If the shop did the work as promised, I would have bought a few more things from them, like forged tranny, motul fluids, and other miscellaneous items. I also would have referred a lot of Subaru owners to them.
 

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01 STM RS EJ257, 6MT, Brembos
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2,033 Posts
I'm very sorry to hear that. DS1 has an ad up right now for cars to test their new Tomei turbos. This is a very interesting post to have up during that time. I know it has made me think twice about a few things.
 

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Premium Member
2002 2.5 RS-T
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2,960 Posts
wow.....i've never heard anything bad about them before.....but you got shafted hardcore...i hate it when a shop dicks people around. If they dont have the time or just dont want to work on someones car they should just be honest and tell the customer to come pick up their car. Also billing without an invoice? shoot. I wouldn't have paid anything until the car was running and the work was all done. damn

i think i'll have to reconsider where im sending my tranny. I dont support vendors who do stuff like that. Even if i they have the cheapest price.
 

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2x01 2.5RS, 97 gm4
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2,208 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i know. i am dumb for paying them but i paid them because i didn't want to be an asshole and because i heard lots of good things about them so i trusted them. also i know a guy locally..like 40min away from that done a swap there long time ago and had some what similar experience.

i mean i had the motor installed in the car already so it shouldn't have taken them 6 months and still not finishing it. so now i want to do full sti driveline because i don't want to get my tranny work there. so now my only option is to get 6mt or full sti driveline because my 20g might die but i'm not sure it is coming from the ppl that said i had bad gas so thats why i didnt boost.
 

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(860)
2001 2.5RSTi Coupe
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1,095 Posts
id like to hear ECS and DS1's side of this story, because from what i know of them, and from having dealt with them personally, and a lot of my good friends who do business with them, ive never heard about anything like this ever happening...these shops have a good reputation in the subaru community for a reason...

i could be wrong, i wasnt there, but still, id like to hear what theyve got to say about this.
 

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2x01 2.5RS, 97 gm4
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2,208 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
id like to hear ECS and DS1's side of this story, because from what i know of them, and from having dealt with them personally, and a lot of my good friends who do business with them, ive never heard about anything like this ever happening...these shops have a good reputation in the subaru community for a reason...

i could be wrong, i wasnt there, but still, id like to hear what theyve got to say about this.
just to show you:
http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76391

paid almost $2000.... never gave total before hand and took over 2 months to do. and this is how they treat MY wiring.
 

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13 Impreza
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1,334 Posts
sorry to hear about your bad experience with those shops.

i've been dicked around recently by a very reputable subaru specialist shop. worst part is you never see it coming because of their reputation. unfortunately, if i just brought the car to the dealership to have the same work done, the grand total would've been lower.

lesson learned.
 

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96' GF8
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553 Posts
Well where to start...

Slava brings me a car that he attempted to do the swap himself. He had said it was "almost ready to start but just needed the wiring completed"

He has installed the engine and trans with the wrong radiator and completely hacked wiring. He has also hacked the fuel pump set-up by attempting to splice the plastic line from his car onto the older Ver.3 pump module, very unsuccessfully.The dash is completely disassembled along with most of the engine bay.

The wiring was so messed up that ECS had to completely remake the EJ20G harness from scratch. This took a while because spare EJ20G harnesses aren't something you can just run down the street and get. I give Paul @ ECS alot of credit for piecing that mess back together and doing it for what I consider to be a very reasonable price.

We replaced the basic maintenance items that we had told him were a good idea (which we do in all older JDM engines for reliability)
Plugs
Timing Belt
Tensioner
Water Pump
Valve Cover Gaskets
Cam and Crank seals

After we recieved the wiring back from ECS we installed it in the car and reassembled the dash and attempted to start the car. that's when we found the fuel pump mess which he had neglected to tell us about.

We fixed the fuel pump mess by replacing the hacked fuel line which required dropping the tank down and lowering the rear sub frame.

The car now starts but will not stay running. The fuel in the tank has the consistency of Diesel. We pump the tank as dry as we can get it and fill it with 93 octane to dilute any remnants.

By this time the swap has taken way more time than we had allocated for it and is now being worked on in between our normal appointments that had already been scheduled.

He is calling about 3 times a day even though we tell him if there is an update we will contact him. He decides to come get the car before we have time to sit down and figure out what is wrong with the car. The power door lock may or may not have worked when he brought it but I'll never know since he took it apart. Some of the things he and I had talked about (wrapping up and down pipe, installing metal coolant tank,) were not done in order to keep his cost down since this swap had gone way past the price we had discussed and I knew since he installed them he could do this labor.

We were also concerned about the noise level of this engine, this is why we had discussed the rebuild options.

The amount of labor and parts we have in the car is way beyond what Slava had paid.

Slava- I'm sorry that this swap has ended this way, I would have liked to have had the time to finish it to your satisfaction. I hope you understand that we took a huge loss on your car and did a lot of extra stuff on it that we didn't get paid for.

-Dylan @ DS1
 

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By this time the swap has taken way more time than we had allocated for it and is now being worked on in between our normal appointments that had already been scheduled.

He is calling about 3 times a day even though we tell him if there is an update we will contact him. He decides to come get the car before we have time to sit down and figure out what is wrong with the car. The power door lock may or may not have worked when he brought it but I'll never know since he took it apart. Some of the things he and I had talked about (wrapping up and down pipe, installing metal coolant tank,) were not done in order to keep his cost down since this swap had gone way past the price we had discussed and I knew since he installed them he could do this labor.

The amount of labor and parts we have in the car is way beyond what Slava had paid.

Slava- I'm sorry that this swap has ended this way, I would have liked to have had the time to finish it to your satisfaction. I hope you understand that we took a huge loss on your car and did a lot of extra stuff on it that we didn't get paid for.

-Dylan @ DS1
As the person/shop who writes up the estimates and dictates the final cost, it is solely your responsibility. Do not try to get pity or play a guilt trip of "well we lost soo much money!" because as a responsible shop, it again, is all on you to make up the price and services done.
 

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I wrote the estimate based on his description of the car.
Working in the autobody field, I can tell you ABSOLUTELY no one writes an estimate on just a description.
example:
painting a car and discovering solid bondo on a quarter. the shop is forced to stick with the price of the estimate, or the custom can take action.
same goes for you, i have no idea why someone as professional as a DS1 worker would just write and estimate on words.
I think its a poor situation for both ds1 and slava, but I dont feel sorry for ds1 for not writing an accurate estimate and losing money.

Edit: I applaud slava for even attempting the harness. I know you guys like to make out the merge to be 100 times worse than it is, and thats why imo you get most of the business you do. I havent had trouble with my 2000 to 2003 merge yet.
 

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96' GF8
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553 Posts
His attempt at his harness is what cost him most of the money.

I'm not asking for anyone to feel sorry for me. I admit, I trusted his word as for the condition of the swap. When the car got here I should have gone over it with him to list off all the work it needed. This was my mistake.

-Dylan @ DS1
 

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02' PSM WRX
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1,535 Posts
just to show you:
http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76391

paid almost $2000.... never gave total before hand and took over 2 months to do. and this is how they treat MY wiring.
relax... its a bunch of wires.... you cant hurt them buy throwing them around. and even if they did he would of fixed them... paul is a good guy.

i mean ive never met you before in my life but you seem to be the type of guy who is the guy that just keeps calling and calling and emailing and emailing. i would have charged you 2 grand too if thats what you gave me for a harness to merge. and i would have been alot more pissed than he was about getting
that in the mail in order to merge it...


i used to have a sign in my shop:

Labor rate: 65/hr
if you watch: 75/hr
if you worked on it first: 100/hr


o yeah and i dont think that DS1 or ECS are responsible for taking too long. they were too busy fixing YOUR mistakes around working on other cars that they had scheduled. and all you can say is that THEY made the mistakes. haha. nice. just because they are the reputable shop it seems like you trying to take advantage of them. from what i can see if you just took your running impreza to the shop to get it swapped the first time around, you know instead of thinking your a subaru wiring guru/ mechanic, you wouldnt have any problems.

:takes a deep breath:
 

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2x01 2.5RS, 97 gm4
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2,208 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Well where to start...

Slava brings me a car that he attempted to do the swap himself. He had said it was "almost ready to start but just needed the wiring completed"

He has installed the engine and trans with the wrong radiator and completely hacked wiring. He has also hacked the fuel pump set-up by attempting to splice the plastic line from his car onto the older Ver.3 pump module, very unsuccessfully.The dash is completely disassembled along with most of the engine bay.

The wiring was so messed up that ECS had to completely remake the EJ20G harness from scratch. This took a while because spare EJ20G harnesses aren't something you can just run down the street and get. I give Paul @ ECS alot of credit for piecing that mess back together and doing it for what I consider to be a very reasonable price.

We replaced the basic maintenance items that we had told him were a good idea (which we do in all older JDM engines for reliability)
Plugs
Timing Belt
Tensioner
Water Pump
Valve Cover Gaskets
Cam and Crank seals

After we recieved the wiring back from ECS we installed it in the car and reassembled the dash and attempted to start the car. that's when we found the fuel pump mess which he had neglected to tell us about.

We fixed the fuel pump mess by replacing the hacked fuel line which required dropping the tank down and lowering the rear sub frame.

The car now starts but will not stay running. The fuel in the tank has the consistency of Diesel. We pump the tank as dry as we can get it and fill it with 93 octane to dilute any remnants.

By this time the swap has taken way more time than we had allocated for it and is now being worked on in between our normal appointments that had already been scheduled.

He is calling about 3 times a day even though we tell him if there is an update we will contact him. He decides to come get the car before we have time to sit down and figure out what is wrong with the car. The power door lock may or may not have worked when he brought it but I'll never know since he took it apart. Some of the things he and I had talked about (wrapping up and down pipe, installing metal coolant tank,) were not done in order to keep his cost down since this swap had gone way past the price we had discussed and I knew since he installed them he could do this labor.

We were also concerned about the noise level of this engine, this is why we had discussed the rebuild options.

The amount of labor and parts we have in the car is way beyond what Slava had paid.

Slava- I'm sorry that this swap has ended this way, I would have liked to have had the time to finish it to your satisfaction. I hope you understand that we took a huge loss on your car and did a lot of extra stuff on it that we didn't get paid for.

-Dylan @ DS1
that is why i never got ANY calls from you? ever? i asked if the car was ready. you told me it was. power doors worked. everyone swaps ej20g and uses rs radiator. look around. i don't care but in 6mn you could do alot of work. so it shouldnt have taken you this long. you didnt ship all of promised parts. you charged me for coolant tank and didn't install it, i don't see how that is keeping the price low. also no invoices? there isn't a legit reason for you not giving those to me. i can be a dick and call IRS and better business bureau and make sure you have your income reported properly.
if you cant do it then just say that. like i said i had a chance of buying one merged. and don't see how i was missing harness when it was bought from ecs. i told you about the pump and dash? serious?? thats what you take off to get the harness out, shouldn't take more then an hour to put back in.

no matter how bad the car was, 6 months is more then enough to finish the car and have it running good. besides you are a proffesional so you should be able to do this stuff fast and easy
 
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