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Discussion Starter #1
I'm seriously looking for a supercharger for my RS. Is Rimmer realy that bad? who else is selling supercharger kits?
 

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Dave,

Yeah, Rimmer pretty much sucks, besides, I think they are out of business. I suspect that the equipment is fine, just the service, support, and availability is what killed them.

Considering the number of turbo kits out there and the number of people successfully turbo kits (i.e., Shiv of Sport Compact Car magazine) is there a specific reason to consider a supercharger over a turbo charger?

-James
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm looking for 'bolt on power' with no permenant modifications to the engine or exhaust. We have a 2002 WRX, I like the turbo on it, but I want low end response on my 2.5 instead of waiting for 3200 rpm for the turbo to come in. Besides replacing all of the exhaust tubing, head gaskets (to lower CR for better performance) and all of the extra pieces and tweeking required to get it 'right' seems a bit much for top end T & HP gains.:rolleyes:
 

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Ah, I understand. There are several kits out there that utilize the factory headers and compression ratio, which bolt on in 1-2 days, and will retain the torque. However, as far as superchargers, I think you'll be hard pressed to find anything.

Maybe (yikes) Nitrous? I'd never use it but...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Nitrous is great for short bursts of raw power, but not I'm looking for that. Sustained low end improvement that won't eat up my engine, thats what I need. The previews of the new ST-X pickup show a 2.5l with a 'Bell' style roots Supercharger sitting on top of the engine but it looks like Subaru made masive changes to intake rails, air box and accessories to accomadate this package. Too bad about Rimmer, their add for the 2.5RS on the web page is still in place, and they have recently updated the web site with new equipment for other mfgrs. :confused:
 

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You might try keeping your eyes open for a user Rimmer piece over at the i-club (.com/forums) as I see them come up for sale every 6 months or so. I saw the new STX with the supercharger, but last I heard that was just for show. Apparently they are going to either put the 2.5 or the 2.0 WRX engine in it rather than try and make the sueprcharger work. But then who knows for sure - only the minds over at Subaru.

I originally wanted to supercharge my car for the same reason - more torque - but decided that when I do my car, I'm going to stick with the standard compression ratio, or at least one pretty high (maye 9.5:1) to retain the stock torque, and go from there. I've pretty much ruled out a supercharger due to lack of parts/availability, and especially if I need to maintain it down the line - if you're having this much trouble finding the supercharger, how are you going to be able to fix it if something breaks (like a bracket, belt, pulley... ???) :(

You might consider having someone make a custom piece, but that would be $$$.

Don't mean to rain on your parade or anything, but most RS guys I know have ruled out the supercharger - maybe for some of the reasons I mentioned. But if you do it, I am sure you'll love it! :D
 

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New Centrifugal Supercharger kit forthcoming

Hello,

I am brand new on this board, but I have been a loyal I-clubber for two years, ever since I bought my RS. My partner and I have been busy at work for a while now in the development of a centrifugal supercharger kit for the 2.5, and possibly even 2.2. Well, we have become the US distributor for a very, very fantastic brand of supercharger and we are finally closing in on the completion of the prototype. Once tuning is taken care of we should be having some stage 1 kits available that will be around 6 psi. If these are popular and there is demand, these will be upgradable to higher boost levels with additional fuel controls etc. etc. If anyone has any questions, or would like updates about where we are with the project and what we are doing, feel free to email me.

Sincerely,

Kent
 

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Hey Templar,

Well I'm interested in seeing something - do you have any pictures? What about a web site? Let me know... :D
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Templar...I am very interested in your proposed product(s). Please post more info if you can. Where are you located and how do you plan to market your product(s)? I would consider reviewing or testing your product(s) as they reach pre-production stage. I am an engineer and a tuner. Will you be utilizing air over air intercoolers or air over water (Laminova types)?:)
 

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More info on the supercharger

Wow, It seems I have recieved more of a response than I expected here.

Ok, right now I have no pictures of what is going on, a good friend has a digital and when we get the brackets machined that is probably when the picture taking will start.

We are using a European brand that has never had a US distributor before now, but we are trying to keep that name a secret until we can get the website launched. The website will be www.dntperformance.com, but there is nothing there yet so don't go there.

The unit we are using is one of the smallest, lightest and most efficient superchargers in the world. It is honestly close to the size of your alternator. It weighs 11 pounds and boasts of an adiabatic efficiency rating of over 80% at some points in it's rpm range.

The stage one in going to be non intercooled, as we are only looking into very moderate boost levels, and with a unit this efficient, you might actually suffer more pressure loss than you gain by the cooling of the air. I am not kidding, we think that is a possibility. Perhaps a very small intercooler would work at this level, but we are hoping to keep the cost of the Stage 1 kit (which should offer around 6psi) to under $3000. This will include all that is necessary for install and fuel control for the kit. The kit will be upgradeable as well. As I type this, the prototype car sits ready to have the blower dropped in, we have mearly ran into problems getting a bracket machined.

By the way, I am in Asheville, NC which is about two hours west of Charlotte. Once the prototype is ready we will look for someone locally to manufacture all of the parts and pieces in a nice functional aesthetically pleasing fashion. The project cars engine bay looks a little thrown together, as is usually the case when developing after market supercharger kits. This will not be the case with the final product.

We will be marketing this product, along with some others that we have planned, through various performance, most likely starting with Teague's Auto. As of now, I am uncertain whether we wish to sell direct or not. We are trying to keep away from the deep dark shadow that Rimmer cast upon the Supercharged Subaru idea, and hopefully our products being distributed through channels that people already know and trust will help us along in the market.

We will also be selling the head units seperately for customer designed systems, and we wil be ofering custom designed systems for most any car. The Subaru is hopefully only the beginning for our fledgling enterprise.

Sincerely,

Kent Burgess
DNT Performance
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Templar.... I live in LV, NV and our weather is always dry and 9 months out of the year 90+ with daytime summer temps btwn 105 and 120. Intercooling may be an issue for me! What is volumetric rate of the head unit and how will you control boost, low RPM flow (clutch vs bypass?) and over boost? Have you planned for water injection, rising rate fuel regulation...etc.?:cool:
 

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Dave,

Well, intercooling of course can be an option if it is needed. And it wouldn't be hard to get one to fit in the system. essentially it would entail the removal of one length of intake piping and the addition of a different piece and an intercooler.

Boost control is going to be very straight forward and controlled by pulley size. No clutch, although there will be a blow off/bypass valve for when the throttle plates close to keep the oncoming air from slamming up against it. I will tell you why we are going with this system. Reliablility and ease of use are the main reasons, but also, it is my belief that with the very limited rpm range on the 2.5 liter that no other types of boost control should be needed to have an effective and extremely fun to drive supercharged Subaru. If you are below 3000 rpms, chances are you don't want to be running gobs of boost, more than likely you are cruising along at highway speeds or something similiar. You will still have more power on tap than you would stock, it just isn't going to be throwing gobs of air into your manifold, and then the ECU having to throw gobs of fuel in to compensate. It isn't until 3000 rpm that most medium hard driving begins in the RS, and even in stock form revs rise pretty quickly from there until about 5800 then it goes pretty flat. Well, with our kit in place, we believe that the power is going to be in the powerband where you want it, and it will be available very quickly. Since it will be running off of the crankshaft pulley, you will always be running a little boost, unlike in a turbo application where you fall into vacuum when cruising along. So when you get on the gas, that extra power from even the small amount of boost, coupled with the nice, fat amount of torque already in place in the 2.5 liter engine, will propel you up in the rpm rangevery, very quickly. The pulley size we have selected was recommended to us by the supercharger manufacturer based on all the information we gave them about the size of our crank pulleys, rpm range, stock hp, torque and displacement, and of course our boost goal.
We have made no plans for water injection at the moment, but when we start making plans for upgrades and subsequent stages we are planning on looking into the matter a bit more thoroughly. At the moment, it looks like we are going to be able to market the kit as the head unit, mounting brackets, belts, upgraded fuel pump, a Bell Rising rate fuel regulator,blow off valve, and of course all of the intake piping, hardware etc.

Of course this is subject to change based on the actual results and EGT's that we see once the unit is inside the car. As you know, sometimes theory and reality are two completely different planes regardless of what the available facts say.

Some of our biggest concerns had been on upgraded engine management for the higher boost stages, but I think we have made some headway in that direction with some new products which have recently come out that will keep the price in a more reasonable realm.

At the moment we are certain to be offering the stage 1 kit for MY00 and 01, plus 02 RS models, and probably on 98 and earlier phase I 2.5 liter applications, as these were the easiest to add boost to. If we do offer an app. for the 99 it will be because we are approached to do a custom settup. The hot film MAS on the 99 was just too fragile, and would require a replacement which is something we aren't even wanting to get into developing unless it looks like there is going to be demand, and if a project car presents itself to us.

If you have any question feel free to email me. I am also emailing several folks with regular updates on the project so if you would like, let me know and I will add you to the list.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I can hardly wait......How about providing a collum or pillar mounted boost gage with the kit and an option of (matching) color anodized tubing (Rally Blue and Sedona Red come to mind!)
Do you know if the 02 WRX intercooler will fit on top of an 00 RS2.5? We have both (00 2.5RS and 02 WRX).
 

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I have been debating about the coloring of the tubing. It will either be polished, or it will be powerder coated, and if it is powder coated then there will be a choice of colors.

As far as the boost gauges go, the kit will probably not come with one, and I will tell you why. It is not because we are trying to be cheap, but it is because gauges are a very personal thing, some like auto meter, some like VDO, some like whit face, some like black, some want them in the center, some want them on the a pillar. We looked into an auto meter dealership for this purpose, but once we saw pricng we realized that our customers would be able to buy exactly what they want from Summit Racing for less than we can even get the stuff for. So the big reason we are doing it is so that you, the customer, can get exactly what you want, for less money.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Color will definitly add to upgrade. With the projected HP and Torque gains, what seems to be the prevailing winner in the 'enhanced' street clutch setups? I've seen 4 pad and 6 pad copper, ceramic and even kevlar clutches.....one of these has to shake out as the best value. I'm looking for more pressure plate force (at least 50%), long life and bouncless engagement (especially when cold! I hate cold clutch hop!!!) :(
 

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Templar,

What about oil feed and return? Will we need to have the oil pan plumbed or not? If you have already mentioned it then I do apologize.

I even asked the wife and she said since I have been so good lately :D that I can save for the kit. WooHoo! All that walking around the malls for endless hours has payed off!
 

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Oil feed will be very simple. It wil require a filter relocation device where your oil filter usually sits, from there the line runs to an oil cooler, which the kit will include, then to the new oil filter location, then into the supercharger, after that the oil will then return to the relocation device and back into the engine.

One important thing to note here, is that I have been informed by the unit manufacturer, that synthetic oil is bad for the seals on the unit, so once the supercharger is installed you must run on natural oil.
 

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I already run the dino oil and I really like that new oil setup. As my kids would say; That is swank.


I was also wondering how headers (I have Borlas), hi-flow cat, cams and 63-64mm throttle body would affect boost and/or performance. On a turbo'd car a large tube header will slow down exhaust speed therefore not spinning the turbo at maximum efficiency? But using an SC, I would assume you want to run a normal header like the borla, mrt, brullen, etc.

As for exhaust, a 2.5" to 3" would be ideal?? Or is it more like an NA car were scavaging is very important. I'm currently running the Stromung 2.25" cat back.

And as for cams you probably would want to run a cam similar to the "turbo cam" from cobb tuning?

ARG once mentioned that when he got on it hard it sounded like a screaming F-16. I love the sound of an SC.
 

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Actually, this kit will sound more like a turbo, but without the sudden "spooling" effect. The whine will probably be audible though.

I have seen Templar's supercharger in the flesh, and I can say without reservation that it's the most impressive piece of automotive engineering I've ever seen. We took the bolts out to take off the compressor housing and take a look at the blades, and it was so tightly machined, we had to pry the housing off with a flathead screwdriver.

I'm also blown away by how small it is. The whole unit fits inside Templar's autocross helmet, and I believe he wears a small.


Dude, get the thing finished!!! I wanna get a ride in it! :D
 
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