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'99 Black RS Coupe
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Discussion Starter #1
OK. So for those who don't know, I recently blew my V5 STi Type R motor.

I've decided to go with an EJ257 short block. Now, my question is, should I just get a brand new stock block, or a built block?

Im going to be running the car with the stock turbo for a while. I came from a Ford Probe GT to the RS, to the swapped RS, so I'd like to get used to the ~300 hp im gonna have.

However, a year or two down the line, I can see myself slapping on a GT35R. My type R heads should be able to handle the GT35R, but will the stock EJ257? Reliably? For a long time?

The stock block costs 1500 brand new from the dealership. I was looking at the Gruppe-S GS650LR Short Block which is on sale for 3000 shipped.

When I mentioned the gruppe-s built block to the guy who will be doing the work on my car (its a suby dealership with a performance/rally division), he pretty much said: dont buy the block from them. They're a parts house. If you're going to buy a block, buy it from someone who builds blocks, ie crawford, cosworth, etc. Would you guys trust a block from gruppe-s?

Anyway, all input is appreciated, let me know what you guys think. I have just a few days to make up my mind.
 

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id buy a cosworth if i could afford it!

not real sure but some ppl have been saying crawford isnt good..but then again thats NASIOC..GD lamers galore.
 

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'99 Black RS Coupe
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Discussion Starter #3
id buy cosworth too!! lol

My dilemma is, do I really need a built up block? I really would rather not have another block blow up on me..I know people run GT35R's on stock EJ257's, but how long do those last?

And would you guys trust a block built by gruppe-s?

Ahhhh..decisions decisions!!
 

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02 F-150 Extended Cab
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i dont see why you cant run 300 whp on these blocks stock

FYI, Skully was making 500-600+ AWHP on a phase I open deck EJ25 motor using sti internals i believe..or some type of forged stuff.

I'd invest in pistons before I even bothered with the block..

stock subaru stuff is good
 

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1998 Forester on Orange 57F
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LeoNYC said:
.
However, a year or two down the line, I can see myself slapping on a GT35R. My type R heads should be able to handle the GT35R, but will the stock EJ257? Reliably? For a long time?
What do you consider reliable? Will it make 100k miles. I doubt it but 50,000miles is probably doable if you don't mind blow by. Also get yourself a good tuner! And as blow by increases you will need to retune. If some one is installing the block. I'm sure they could handle putting some forged pistons in there. I would consider that to be more reliable then the stockers. At least for gt35r power.

LeoNYC said:
When I mentioned the gruppe-s built block to the guy who will be doing the work on my car (its a suby dealership with a performance/rally division), he pretty much said: dont buy the block from them. They're a parts house. If you're going to buy a block, buy it from someone who builds blocks, ie crawford, cosworth, etc. Would you guys trust a block from gruppe-s?
Honestly, I would not waste the money unless you are planning on really running this at really really high boost. And I would go with Axis, Cosworth, Crawfrod and then gruppe-slow as a last resort.
 

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Brydon said:
What do you consider reliable? Will it make 100k miles. I doubt it but 50,000miles is probably doable if you don't mind blow by. Also get yourself a good tuner! And as blow by increases you will need to retune. If some one is installing the block. I'm sure they could handle putting some forged pistons in there. I would consider that to be more reliable then the stockers. At least for gt35r power.
Brydon, I know no one builds a high boost motor and doesnt drive the piss out of it but say for example I got a built block and boosted it with a GT35R but I let say; my mom or dad drive it back and forth to work everyday and basically never hit boost. Do you think 50K miles is still about the maximum amount of time the engine would last?
 

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'08 DGM Legacy Spec. B
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I would listen to the mechanic dude. You dont have to buy a block from one of the big name companies. You can always buy the stock block and have a trusted local engine builder build the block for you.
 

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2000 SRP RS
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311 Posts
Ok, re-read the OP.

Ummm, I would suggest getting a V7 Shortblock, fully forged, closed deck, the works, one of the best blocks for a GT35R (sheesh).

Or, get a regular block and have a local trusted engine shop build it.
 

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Signatus said:
Ummm, I would suggest getting a V7 Shortblock, fully forged, semi-closed deck, the works, one of the best blocks for a GT35R (sheesh).
GT35r is laggy as anything on a 2.0L. imo GT30 is better suited on a 2.0L

What are your power goals? STi block is a stout block in stock form and you can get 400whp from it. If you want to go higher I would recommend only then going with a built block. OEM will always last longer.
 

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mxpunk said:
Brydon, I know no one builds a high boost motor and doesnt drive the piss out of it but say for example I got a built block and boosted it with a GT35R but I let say; my mom or dad drive it back and forth to work everyday and basically never hit boost. Do you think 50K miles is still about the maximum amount of time the engine would last?
Well, my friend and i did his stock STI with a gt35r. It went about 50,000miles racing it every weekend. It also made 11.5 passes on stock suspension and clutch. No joke he would race it every weekend. He was doing a 150+mph blast one day and it no joke melted the corner of a piston at 32psi. high high high egts on 120 octane leaded gas. You could go longer miles but most people seem to not even make that. Keep up on the tuning and anything is possible but with blow-by increasing you will need to re tune it more as the miles get higher. But we are talking about over 500hp at the crank daily. 600hp crank on occation.
 

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Brydon said:
Well, my friend and i did his stock STI with a gt35r. It went about 50,000miles racing it every weekend. It also made 11.5 passes on stock suspension and clutch. No joke he would race it every weekend. He was doing a 150+mph blast one day and it no joke melted the corner of a piston at 32psi. high high high egts on 120 octane leaded gas. You could go longer miles but most people seem to not even make that. Keep up on the tuning and anything is possible but with blow-by increasing you will need to re tune it more as the miles get higher. But we are talking about over 500hp at the crank daily. 600hp crank on occation.
thats sweet

so why havent you opened your own shop already? to me you seem to be very well informed on this stuff!!
 

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mxpunk said:
thats sweet

so why havent you opened your own shop already? to me you seem to be very well informed on this stuff!!
Maybe someday. My 5 years of college would seem like a waste. Maybe after I have worked in the real world for a while. I can build and tune just about any import. My only real interest in cars is going fast. I would want to do a lot with track cars but that is hard to get into. I guess I just like working for friends better. Although I was doing gt35r turbos on subarus before Perrin had a kit out yet. Back then Everyone said it wouldn't spool to redline. We proved them wrong. Nasioc also told me my car would not be possible. Oh and that you can't put WRX heads on a ej22t block. I'm glad I never listen to people.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
OK guys, so I did some reading over @ the nasioc built forum section. Here are some observations I've made. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong..

1. A stock EJ257 block can last a long long time reliably at power levels up to 370whp.

2. Built motors don't last as long as stock motors (assuming both are running within their reliable power band) because they are built to "looser" tolerances. What I mean by this is that a stock block @ 370whp will last longer than a built block @ 500whp.

Question: Which would last longer @ 370whp? I'm thinking a stock block, because of the "looser" piston clearance of the built motor. So if I'm not going over 370whp, I don't need a built block, and If I use one I may actually be lowering the overall life of the motor @ 370whp.

I'm thinking that a stock block is probably the best bet for me right now. I would like to upgrade the turbo in the future, but that wouldn't be for at least a year or 2. And by that time I would already have used up a good portion of the built motors life.

I'm a newb to built motors, so like i said earlier, feel free to correct and enlighten me.

Thanks!
 

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ej257 can do 450 wheel all day long. Bascially you need to decide how much power you ultimately want to make. I would stay away from Gruppe-S, I've seen one of their "built blocks" that supposed to be brand new, yet it was clearly a blown 257 that was rebuilt. Not to mention it was missing a lot of little things that we had to track down to finish the block. Keep in mind with 2.5 you will not be able to rev to 8k anymore. Reliably it can rev to 7200-7500. If you end up with 2.5 consider the GT30, it will make 450 (assuming thats what you want) with a lot more torque than the 35.
 

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LeoNYC said:
1. A stock EJ257 block can last a long long time reliably at power levels up to 370whp.

2. Built motors don't last as long as stock motors (assuming both are running within their reliable power band) because they are built to "looser" tolerances. What I mean by this is that a stock block @ 370whp will last longer than a built block @ 500whp.
Built motors or stock motors should last the same amount of time. Most people with built motors push the motors harder so that might be why people think they are less reliable. All blocks should be built to stock tolerances for most builds. The only looser tolerances are generally for forged pistons do to expantion characteristics. Not many but some people do extra clearance bearings for increased revs. This shouldn't effect wear as long as you have enough oil flow.

The only problem with the stock ej257 is the pistons are not resiliant to knock. A forged piston might be a good idea if you want to upgrade something easy before installing the block. If you are looking for resonable power goals then it will last quite awhile with good tuning.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for all the input guys.

Im going to go with a brand new stock EJ257, and throw in either Mahle or JE pistons.

Is there anything I can do with the heads to "refresh" them now that the motor is apart?

Also, would I benefit from a FMIC with the stock VF28? Or should I hold off on that until I upgrade the turbo?
 

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LeoNYC said:
Thanks for all the input guys.

Im going to go with a brand new stock EJ257, and throw in either Mahle or JE pistons.

Is there anything I can do with the heads to "refresh" them now that the motor is apart?

Also, would I benefit from a FMIC with the stock VF28? Or should I hold off on that until I upgrade the turbo?
I would get the FMIC now so its one thing less you have to worry about once you get the bigger turbo. FMIC's can support big HP and the lag isn't really that noticeable from what I have been told..even with smaller turbos like the TD04

To me the lag might seem like a trade off for cooler intake temps
 
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