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1994 L Wagon Grey
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Discussion Starter #1
Alright, well on my quest for going turbo I learned alot. I learned alot about what goes into a kit and what makes what do what. If that made any sence :happynow:

I was realy wondering what goes into making a supercharger kit. right now I have the parts to go turbo sitting at my home, and I am almost about to make the jump, rip open my car and install the kit. I always loved the supercharger, comming from the old domestic side, and I am fighting selling off the nessary parts (turbo, turbo back, uppipe) and mabye sourcing a supercharger and going that route.

What I was looking from you guys is if you could tell me what goes into making a supercharger kit, what parts are there in a kit, what do you need, how do you control timing, can you use a j/s 2 with retard per psi of boost...basically if you can tell me the bits and details that go into making a supercharger kit. Because at this moment, I am thinking of abandoning the turbo kit and go to the dark side of AFI :happynow:

Any info would be greatly appreciated, and trust me...I know it si goignt o be alot of work, but if I can get the info...I will do it.
 

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I'm sure you read about the SC kit that Templar is building up (in the 'Forced Induction' room), but if you haven't yet... do it. There are a lot of questions that were answered on that overgrown thread. If you have questions regarding SC's in general, check out that thread as I'm sure most of your questions are already answered there. ...and get ready to use up about 2hrs of reading time (not including thinking time :p )
 

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you'd need a stout transmission to start with. torque will kill your stock one. and a clutch. and toss all the crap you know about ecu controls out the window. get a stand alone system. lessee.... clutch & trans 4-5k. engine control, 1400 overcome these issues and contact me about tube bending 101. dont expect to run an eaton blower it runs at ten lbs or less. you are now hooked and jonseing on more power. pop the pistons out and get forged ones and new rods and rebalance the crank and and and and and
 

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dark side my ass. try the black bleak vast wastland of no car for weeks on end and maybe you can drive it across town without calling the towtruck man who laughs and laughs and get a ride to pick up or drop off or pick up or drop off my car over and over and over and leave it parked outside at some strange garage and worry about it all fucking night side.
you sure you got the stomach for hotrodding? how about the vast reserve of vacuum that my engine develops at shutdown that sucks oil right past the rings and puffs smoke on occasion that would make a dnepr jealous?. okay rant over. sorry.
 

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1994 L Wagon Grey
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Discussion Starter #5
5252 said:
you'd need a stout transmission to start with. torque will kill your stock one. and a clutch. and toss all the crap you know about ecu controls out the window. get a stand alone system. lessee.... clutch & trans 4-5k. engine control, 1400 overcome these issues and contact me about tube bending 101. dont expect to run an eaton blower it runs at ten lbs or less. you are now hooked and jonseing on more power. pop the pistons out and get forged ones and new rods and rebalance the crank and and and and and
Ahhh. OK, well I got a j/s 2 with individual knock control and with retard on boost, I also am an automatic so I don't need to worry about the clutch issues will after 260hp. I am working on pistons, rods, crank, o-ringing, new heads and valve springs right now. But for the time being while I build up the blown block I aquired from a friend...I was thinking of running about 5-6 psi untill I get the block done in two months or so after I replenish my "fun" funds.

I will also be going for a stand alone ecu after the new block is in, but I am confident in the j/s2, because that is what I was going to use on the turbo kit. I was thinking of a m62 (I think that is what it is called) supercharger and running around 6psi with parrell fuel rails, 370cc injectors, 2 degress cooler (I think it is cooler) plugs, a FMIC (blitz unit) and with a 4-1 RRFPR and a 55 walbro fuel pump.

what do you think about that setup while the motor and ECU get worked on?
-Neal
 

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Discussion Starter #6
5252 said:
dark side my ass. try the black bleak vast wastland of no car for weeks on end and maybe you can drive it across town without calling the towtruck man who laughs and laughs and get a ride to pick up or drop off or pick up or drop off my car over and over and over and leave it parked outside at some strange garage and worry about it all fucking night side.
you sure you got the stomach for hotrodding? how about the vast reserve of vacuum that my engine develops at shutdown that sucks oil right past the rings and puffs smoke on occasion that would make a dnepr jealous?. okay rant over. sorry.
ok, your not making me confident in Supercharging over turboing.:run: :confused: :barf:
 

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man i am telling you, get the stand alone ecu. also try a snail blower:hybrid with the output side of a turbo with a belt pulley on it. this format should be able to generate more than ten lbs. as far as rrfpr etc, i am running 770 injectors on stock fuel pump with stock fuel line configuration with no problems. sometimes people get pressure and volume juxtaposed?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ah, thanks for your suggestions. I will look more serously at the aftermarket ECU. Also, I am not looking to make more the 10 pounds off the bat or for mabye a year or so. So I think a standard Supercharger will work for what i need. The hybrid sounds intresting but I have no clue where to start a project like that. So are you happy with your Supercharger on your car? Sounds like you have had a fusterating road with this. :( But aside from that, are you glad you went sc instead of turbo or n2o? or do you think it is not worth it.

btw: thanks for answering my questions.

-neal
 

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yes i am. it is spectacular. my engine control sensors are giving me grief right now so i am a little wound up. but in general the first v8 i smoked like a salmon was worth every penny. i would like more power though. everybody goes through this stage. good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for you help. Now if you don't mind me scratching your brain one more time.
I want to know what kinda power a supercharger is, usually turbos have been seen as mid to high end power makers. But what do you think a supercharger is? Also is the whine of the SC bareable for long amounts of time, or do you kinda forget it is there? Also what ECU are you using? Thanks for you time.

-Neal
 

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it isn't whining, it's singing. ansd it's drowned out by the transmission. in all honesty the only time i ever notice anything from the blower is at idle when it sounds like a tea kettle gently boiling.
as far as the power band it boosts full at 1750 to about 4500 where it starts trailing off. you definatley don't have to wind it out to get power. it's instant and abundant and is in the perfect place for traffic, or canyon carving,.... or massive devistating rainey day launches against traction impaired c4's or 5.0 mustangs.(especially up an up hill two lane fwy onramp that turns left) even with a friendly (to the clutch) launch it still comes out hard.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
5252 said:
it isn't whining, it's singing. ansd it's drowned out by the transmission. in all honesty the only time i ever notice anything from the blower is at idle when it sounds like a tea kettle gently boiling.
as far as the power band it boosts full at 1750 to about 4500 where it starts trailing off. you definatley don't have to wind it out to get power. it's instant and abundant and is in the perfect place for traffic, or canyon carving,.... or massive devistating rainey day launches against traction impaired c4's or 5.0 mustangs.(especially up an up hill two lane fwy onramp that turns left) even with a friendly (to the clutch) launch it still comes out hard.
right, singing ;) Well I think you sold me. Unfortunally being an auto, I don't expect much in the same power as a manual would get. After the motor and ECU, I am shooting for mid-high 13s and thats it. I just want a good amount of power to make my passanger puke every now and then. But again, this is my only car. (Fortunally I take the train to classes so the car is just a weekend toy, errand runner and a car to take me out to see friends.) But Also, living in the city, I never hop the highways so thats one reason why I leaned towards supercharger now, because I like low and mid range. I never realy get to see much of 3rd and 4th(remember..auto) unless I am double the speed limit.

I only wonder how the SC will be controled when I am WOT and the auto is changing gears. I would assume the SC is still spinnning and blowing air, but the TB will be closed for something like 250rpms, so pretty much my BOV will be screaming for a long time on shifts I would only assume.

-Neal
 

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the sc is sure nice in traffic being able to tiddle along and just drop the hammer on some unsuspecting sport sedan without even downshifting. if you're ever in the neighborhood..... you got any illinois pocket watches? i collect those.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hmm, pocketwatch ehh? I got a few pocket watches but none from illinois. but I work in a tourist area of town, if I find one next week, I will tell ya.

What kinda exaust do you guys run? Headerback? I got a friend with a wrx midpipe back which I guess he has bolted into the stock RS exaust. It sounds realy nice and I bet it flows alot better then stock.

Also, how did ya srouce your supercharger? becuase I am looking right now and I found an m62 in a few junkyards around town in the range of 500-800 bucks. Does that sound right? should I trust junkyard superchargers (off a pontiac boniville)

Thanks for your help. Now I just gottta order the psitons and rods on monday. (any suggestions on who to order rods from? I am getting 9:1 je forged pistons but I don't know what type of rods or from where)

-Neal
 

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get some nice pauter x pattern rods or try titanium rods in the google i heard they were coming down in price.
and eaton products can be rebuilt. i was told to listen for the noise level to increase and that was the sign to send in to rebuild. it usually takes 90,000 miles to wear one out.
my exhaust is simply a three inch off the manifold with a three inch by two foot resonator with a muffler(ha ha ha) looking backbox hat you can lose a chihuahuan in.
 

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5252, I don't think you ever stated any power figures for your car. Do you have any? 1/4, hp, tq, anything? :)
 

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Ok let me add my experience with s/c so far. This is my setup so far.

Eaton m62 with external bypass valve, running 6psi. It is side mounted to engine.
Tec-II kit from shiv for turbo setup. Includes, tec-II, 550CC injectors, sensors, etc.
Sti Intercooler
Uprated walbro fuel pump.
Plat ngk spark plugers 1 deg cooler then stock.

If your manual you'll need a new clutch, my stock clutch which had 14K prior to install can not handle the power and slips in all gears if I mesh the peddle. It also just developed a shudder.(wonder why?)

I would have to say that without the Tec-II, I would not be able to run the car safely. The tec was programed by someone with a few years of experience and was tuned for safety, I was told I could prob get another 20ish hp if tuned to top performance.
With the tec-II I have a solid idle, better then the turbo guys out there. I run low EGT, never going higher then 1400. EGT drop fast when I am off boost.

I am still running stock fuel system other then 550 inject and fuel pump, still running stock compression of my00 2.5 RS which is 10.something to 1.

So far I put a little over 1K miles with this setup. The only issue I have is clutch slippage and I now need the bearings replaced on the s/c. Which is due to it being a used s/c.

The eaton is really not that loud. I hardly hear it. Of course when it hits boost you do hear it. :happynow:

I would have to say i am happy with it. I also like the fuel ecom, as I can drive the car off boost and have a stock like performance and fuel Ecom. Future plans might include going to fmic and 10 psi. But that prob wont happen until a tranny solution is available for a decent cost.

MadMax
 

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Discussion Starter #20
If I might show you guys what I am doing or at right now.

I was going to go turbo with a j/s2 with knock protection and per psi boost retard and also I was going to run parell fuel rails with 370cc injectors a walbaro fuel pump and a RRFPR. On the turbo kit, pretty much all the people whos opinion is worth something to me in the MWIC all said that this would work out fine and be perfect for a mild power setup untill the boost bug hits me.

Now the three of you who are SC'd are vurtually telling me that this won't work. Now I know I am compairing apples to oranges and I don't want you guys to take offence to me asking, but I would like to know why you think this will not work out?

Also, tomarrow (I got up late today) I am ordering, pistons and rods for my motor build up (already have cams and am thinking about valve springs). So I should have a motor in a month that will be able to hold the extra power if I ever get bitten by the bug.

I am also wondering where you got your eaton m62... I am looking for one to side mount also.


--- other things I have from my turbo kit project are
Turbo back exuast, tdo4l turbo, tapped oilpan, FMIC and minor bits and pieces. (I am pretty much ready to go turbo, but SC sounds like what I actually am looking for in power)

-Neal
 
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