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yamarocket630 said:
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140632

Only on I-club would people think that they can react faster than their ABS system. Won't it be great when one of them causes an accident because they slide into someone and all our insurance rates go up?:mad: :mad: :rolleyes:
Actually I'd rather not have the ABS....at least the crappy one the RS has. Maybe that's just me and alot of people that have to drive in alot of rain and snow. To me it's more of an accident waiting to happen.

If you're doind something you shouldn't be or get in an acident because of the weather the abs isn't gonna save your life and neither are whatever you think the best tires are. Shit happens, and even the best drivers have wrecks. Alot of people learned to drive on cars that didn't have ABS, and prefer not to have it.

Tara
 

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plenty of studies have shown that ABS does nothing to prevent accidents. subaru's ABS system has been criticized by many sources, as it doesn't allow the wheel to lock at all. there is a difference between 'skid' and 'bite'. for instance, BMW's ABS system allows a small ammount of lock before the ABS kicks in, and this allows the contact patch to generate friction to aid in slowing the car.

also, if you don't know how to control your vehicle, as in not stabbing at the brakes aimlessly, you shouldn't be driving a high performance car. period.

i'd argue this point further, but then again you signature says it all, so i guess this is a moot point. :D

-adam-
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
RaceCarRiot said:
i'd argue this point further, but then again you signature says it all, so i guess this is a moot point. :D

-adam-
I'll laugh at that 'cause it's funny:lol:

But seriously, I know that ABS is not perfect, and does not make you invincable, but it does modulate the brakes faster than any human can possibly manage, and except in certain cases (ie deep snow or gravel) will stop the car faster than sliding tires. Even Subaru's less than smooth system will.

In addition to being a professional mechanic and having driven more cars that I could possibly ever remember, I also have considerable racing experience, and realize that ABS isn't very good on the race track.

I know that a good driver practicing threshold braking can outbrake ABS, but this requires concentration. (and lots of practice, which isn't a good idea on the street) My problem with this mod is that too many people will leave the ABS turned off during normal street driving, and when the unforseen happens, they won't have the time or concentration to brake effectively, and will just stab the brakes to the floor, it's Human nature. Then if/when the wheels lock, they are going to be more likely to hit whatever obstacle they are suddenly presented with, ie, a 3 year old chasing a ball, the nieghbor's German Shepard, etc, because the won't stop as fast, and have lost steering control. If they are unlucky enough to have this happen in a curve or turn, they now much more likely to spin out of control.

Believe it or not, lots of people smarter than most of us (smarter than me too) have studied this problem for years, and found out that ABS is the best soulution that's really available, besides actually teaching people how to drive (God forbid we would ever do that :rolleyes: )

Having driven hundreds of thousands of miles over my driving career, and racing, (sanctioned and illegal) I consider myself to be a much better than average driver, mainly because I know my limitations. Even so, I still want ABS on my side when it comes to normal driving, because accidents do happen (that's why they call them accidents, and not intentionals).

I'll still be the first one to pull the ABS fuse when I get to the track though.
 

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abs especially in my rs is totally useless and borderline dangerous in the rain and snow. only time i've had the abs kick in is when it was raining and snowing and that's exactly when i don't want it. wish i had a non abs eqipped car like my '98 tacoma i used to have. stopped so much better than my subaru. always stopped straight, could steer while stopping too. maybe i fall into the category of being a good driver or something
 

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b_tapper said:
abs especially in my rs is totally useless and borderline dangerous in the rain and snow.
Can you explain that some more? Why is abs worse in those situations?
 

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It's kind of interesting, though, that in the latest issue of Sport Compact Car they stated that even though they fully support ABS and know that it reacts far quicker than a human can, they HATED the ABS system in their WRX and plan to immediately install a disable switch. They even called Subaru's ABS system one of the WORST ABS systems they've experienced!!! They also went on to explain how Subaru's method for configuring the ABS system differs so greatly from most other manufacturers (they test and tune the ABS system by driving on ice, which is why the ABS system is so willing to jump in when it's not really needed).
 

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I'm siding with yamarocket630 on this one as far as ABS being a good solution for consumer street cars.

It is definitely possible for a human to break better than ABS in certain situations. The human brain is infinitely adaptable (at least as far as we know). A computer program that controls ABS is not.

Simply buying a performance car doesn't mean you know anything about how to drive it. ABS is definitely a good solution for people who panic and stomp on the brakes and keep it pegged, and the steering wheel straight until they hit something to stop, which amounts to about 90% of drivers out there.
 

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I agree that a properly trained driver can stop a non-ABS car faster than with ABS.

I saw an interesting show on how locking all 4 wheels simultaneously can dramatically decrese stopping distance. Some driving school, basically. Cars were stopping from 60mph in, like, 80 feet. I was "bull-shit"-ing the whole time, until they showed a real comparison. :rolleyes:

Some camera man had said "Well, now that I see how it's done, *I* can do that just as well as anyone else." So, they put him behind the wheel, and sent him down the track at 60 MPH. Now keep in mind this was some really big, open car testing grounds kind of set up. All sorts of space, all around.

He hits the brakes, immidiately goes into a skid, sails COMPLETELY off the track, down a gulley, up the other side, and into the WOODS! :eek:

He was not hurt but he totalled the car.

So, that was a good thing they showed that, because I was (of course) going to go out and try it myself. But, after seeing where I would have ended up, I never bothered.

So, ABS is good for the average driver, and non-ABS is good for the very seasoned professional. I'm sticking with ABS for now! :lol:
 

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Well, I learned to drive fast in a car that DIDN'T have ABS, and I'm much more comfortable in a car that doesn't have it.

I like the ability to lock up one or more wheels depending on what I'm doing in the corner and what the slip angle is like. There's nothing like dragging the inside rear tire a little as you're latebraking into a corner at an angle. The ability for that wheel to lock up momentarily is critical when driving on the limit. The crappy Subaru system would release braking power to ALL the wheels in that case, depending on what kind of surface you were braking on. That's a recipe for loss of control.

Hmmm.... GEE, AND PEOPLE WONDER WHY SO MANY WRXS HAVE BEEN WRECKED. Maybe because the shoddy braking system contributes to loss of control while driving on the limit.



Just my .02 cents.... now everyone is free to spout some bullshit about how "WAAAAH if you knew how to drive a car with ABS you wouldn't have a problem... WAAAAH *sniffle* Learn to drive! WAAH! "

Sure, sure. I've heard it all before. Giving that control over to the ABS system also means you MUST drive about 10mph slower in order to give the stupid computer time to react, and give yourself time to react to its frequent mistakes.


-PORTER
 

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I would love to be able to flip my ABS when I'm driving around local streets in snow. There is nothing worse than when you are stopping for an intersection and the ABS kicks in and you just keep on rolling.

And it does not take a skilled driver to stop a non ABS car fast than an ABS equipped car in snow. :rolleyes:
 

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yamarocket630 said:

I'll laugh at that 'cause it's funny:lol:
see, i knew if i poked and prodded, i'd get a better response. :D

i totally understand your point...for most people in most situations ABS serves a purpose. most people i see in traffic regard the brakes as a lightswitch-type mechanism...it's either on or off. since this is most people's approach to driving anymore (thanks to the proliferation of the auto tranny), ABS is definitely a big help in preventing accidents and keeping soccer moms from bashing their un-belted kids faces into the dash. :lol:

however, in a situation on saturday, both my passengers and i were extremely glad that my car doesn't have ABS, and i could let the 4 pots do their work.

-adam-
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
RaceCarRiot said:


see, i knew if i poked and prodded, i'd get a better response. :D

i totally understand your point...for most people in most situations ABS serves a purpose. most people i see in traffic regard the brakes as a lightswitch-type mechanism...it's either on or off. since this is most people's approach to driving anymore (thanks to the proliferation of the auto tranny), ABS is definitely a big help in preventing accidents and keeping soccer moms from bashing their un-belted kids faces into the dash. :lol:

however, in a situation on saturday, both my passengers and i were extremely glad that my car doesn't have ABS, and i could let the 4 pots do their work.

-adam-
That's pretty much the point I was trying to make before I got flamed and had to go on the defensive...:flame: I almost thought I was on the "other club" there for a minute... but then reason prevailed, and everyone was able to at least respect the other person's point of view.

Time to change my sig again too, It's supposed to be funny, not serious.
 

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I'd much prefer it without the ABS as well. It has only snowed once here, and I couldn't use the brakes without the ABS kicking in... and I'm not talking about slamming on brakes, just easy braking. The WRX ABS sucks compared to what's in my parents Honda's, what was in my Grand Prix, and what's in my boss's BMW. All of those actually lock the wheels before kicking in the ABS... the WRX just does it whenever it pleases.

I'd feel a LOT more comfortable knowing that I was controlling my braking... not some silly sensors that can't get it right
 

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If you have ever driven on dirt roads or driven in snow or ice then you would not be praising the subaru ABS system.

I hated it on snow/ice. It was horrible. I was sliding all over the place until I finally got smart enough to pull the fuse so that I could actually STOP at intersections without starting slowing down 400 feet from it (my tires were pretty bad...).

Also on dirt when you brake there is a wedge of dirt that builds up against the surface of the tire and really slows you down. With ABS the wheels never lock and so you do not slow down as quickly. Most of my close calls have been because of this.

ABS is *great* on the road though. Being able to panic break and still steer to some extent is a live-saver and the ABS also keeps you from flat spotting your tires.
 

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ahhh... the great ABS debate has risen again.

Personally. I hate ABS with every ounce of my being. It takes away control from the driver and in most cases does NO good at all. Ok, so it prevents spins great, so, instead of spining and hit something sideways or going off the road, I can hit it head on....wonderfull.:curse:
Dirt, gravel, snow... ABS will increase you stopping distances significantly, you need the tires to lock up and dig in to the surface, not skate over the top of it. On ice nothing is going to stop you any quicker, ABS or non ABS....maybe an anchor would.:confused:
I want to disable my ABS permanently, but instead must make a switch to turn it off when I want to play, race or rally...I wish ABS was an option.
 

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WRX ABS is flawed

The WRX's ABS is definitely flawed. To make a long story short, the ABS activates waaaaay too easily, like when hitting a small bump in the road while moderately braking. And the 4-channel setup is a bunch of crap because it causes the ABS to activate on all 4 wheels. AND as if that's not annoying enough, it takes 2-3 seconds to return control to you even when all 4 wheels have perfect traction on clean, dry, warm road. The only way to regain control of the brakes is to release and then re-apply them (which sometimes doesn't occur to you when suddenly your car decides that it doesn't want to stop for a stoplight). On one occasion I blew completely through a stopsign, and the brakes finally kicked in after I was already in the intersections. It's done this 4 times to me, twice it almost made me crap my pants. I'm taking it to the dealer next week, and if they don't have a fix for it, I'm installing one of those switches. If you don't mind wading through some stupidity, there's more info here
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102893

The NHTSA is currently investigating this problem.
 

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If you agree with that thread, please read my response and feel free to flame me. But in the mean time, <EDITED> Because I was very harsh. Sorry
Eric
 
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