Only on I-club...

RaceCarRiot said:

i'd argue this point further, but then again you signature says it all, so i guess this is a moot point.

-adam-

Click to expand...

I'll laugh at that 'cause it's funny:lol:

But seriously, I know that ABS is not perfect, and does not make you invincable, but it does modulate the brakes faster than any human can possibly manage, and except in certain cases (ie deep snow or gravel) will stop the car faster than sliding tires. Even Subaru's less than smooth system will.

In addition to being a professional mechanic and having driven more cars that I could possibly ever remember, I also have considerable racing experience, and realize that ABS isn't very good on the race track.

I know that a good driver practicing threshold braking can outbrake ABS, but this requires concentration. (and lots of practice, which isn't a good idea on the street) My problem with this mod is that too many people will leave the ABS turned off during normal street driving, and when the unforseen happens, they won't have the time or concentration to brake effectively, and will just stab the brakes to the floor, it's Human nature. Then if/when the wheels lock, they are going to be more likely to hit whatever obstacle they are suddenly presented with, ie, a 3 year old chasing a ball, the nieghbor's German Shepard, etc, because the won't stop as fast, and have lost steering control. If they are unlucky enough to have this happen in a curve or turn, they now much more likely to spin out of control.

Believe it or not, lots of people smarter than most of us (smarter than me too) have studied this problem for years, and found out that ABS is the best soulution that's really available, besides actually teaching people how to drive (God forbid we would ever do that )

Having driven hundreds of thousands of miles over my driving career, and racing, (sanctioned and illegal) I consider myself to be a much better than average driver, mainly because I know my limitations. Even so, I still want ABS on my side when it comes to normal driving, because accidents do happen (that's why they call them accidents, and not intentionals).

I'll still be the first one to pull the ABS fuse when I get to the track though.

I agree that a properly trained driver can stop a non-ABS car faster than with ABS.

I saw an interesting show on how locking all 4 wheels simultaneously can dramatically decrese stopping distance. Some driving school, basically. Cars were stopping from 60mph in, like, 80 feet. I was "bull-shit"-ing the whole time, until they showed a real comparison.

Some camera man had said "Well, now that I see how it's done, *I* can do that just as well as anyone else." So, they put him behind the wheel, and sent him down the track at 60 MPH. Now keep in mind this was some really big, open car testing grounds kind of set up. All sorts of space, all around.

He hits the brakes, immidiately goes into a skid, sails COMPLETELY off the track, down a gulley, up the other side, and into the WOODS!

He was not hurt but he totalled the car.

So, that was a good thing they showed that, because I was (of course) going to go out and try it myself. But, after seeing where I would have ended up, I never bothered.

So, ABS is good for the average driver, and non-ABS is good for the very seasoned professional. I'm sticking with ABS for now! :lol:

Well, I learned to drive fast in a car that DIDN'T have ABS, and I'm much more comfortable in a car that doesn't have it.

I like the ability to lock up one or more wheels depending on what I'm doing in the corner and what the slip angle is like. There's nothing like dragging the inside rear tire a little as you're latebraking into a corner at an angle. The ability for that wheel to lock up momentarily is critical when driving on the limit. The crappy Subaru system would release braking power to ALL the wheels in that case, depending on what kind of surface you were braking on. That's a recipe for loss of control.

Hmmm.... GEE, AND PEOPLE WONDER WHY SO MANY WRXS HAVE BEEN WRECKED. Maybe because the shoddy braking system contributes to loss of control while driving on the limit.



Just my .02 cents.... now everyone is free to spout some bullshit about how "WAAAAH if you knew how to drive a car with ABS you wouldn't have a problem... WAAAAH *sniffle* Learn to drive! WAAH! "

Sure, sure. I've heard it all before. Giving that control over to the ABS system also means you MUST drive about 10mph slower in order to give the stupid computer time to react, and give yourself time to react to its frequent mistakes.


-PORTER

WRX ABS is flawed

The WRX's ABS is definitely flawed. To make a long story short, the ABS activates waaaaay too easily, like when hitting a small bump in the road while moderately braking. And the 4-channel setup is a bunch of crap because it causes the ABS to activate on all 4 wheels. AND as if that's not annoying enough, it takes 2-3 seconds to return control to you even when all 4 wheels have perfect traction on clean, dry, warm road. The only way to regain control of the brakes is to release and then re-apply them (which sometimes doesn't occur to you when suddenly your car decides that it doesn't want to stop for a stoplight). On one occasion I blew completely through a stopsign, and the brakes finally kicked in after I was already in the intersections. It's done this 4 times to me, twice it almost made me crap my pants. I'm taking it to the dealer next week, and if they don't have a fix for it, I'm installing one of those switches. If you don't mind wading through some stupidity, there's more info here
http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=102893

The NHTSA is currently investigating this problem.