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More alignment questions.
I looked up the alignmnet specs in the Hunter computer at work last week, and was surprised to find that the camber spec is approximately -0.4 front, and -1.5 rear. HUH? serious under-steer city! In all my experience both with fullsize cars and with R/C on-road touring cars, that is gonna make the car push like a SOB in the corners.
My first question is has anyone with adjustable top mounts experimented with increasing the front negative camber to say like -0.7 and decreasing the rear to about -0.9 or so? If so, what where the results? I realize that this would cause some excessive front tire wear for street use, but with adjustable top mounts it would be easy enough to mark the settings and go back to near stock when you're not on the track.
Second question, the rear lower arms have one adjustable arm per side, for setting toe. Both of the arms look to be the same length, so could the non-adjustable arm be replaced with another adjustable arm, allowing toe and camber changes, or is there some difference in the mounting that won't allow this? It won't be as quick as an adjustable top mount, but it would be cheaper, and I think the the rear camber set at -0.9 or so would be fine on the track or the street.
My first question is has anyone with adjustable top mounts experimented with increasing the front negative camber to say like -0.7 and decreasing the rear to about -0.9 or so? If so, what where the results? I realize that this would cause some excessive front tire wear for street use, but with adjustable top mounts it would be easy enough to mark the settings and go back to near stock when you're not on the track.
Second question, the rear lower arms have one adjustable arm per side, for setting toe. Both of the arms look to be the same length, so could the non-adjustable arm be replaced with another adjustable arm, allowing toe and camber changes, or is there some difference in the mounting that won't allow this? It won't be as quick as an adjustable top mount, but it would be cheaper, and I think the the rear camber set at -0.9 or so would be fine on the track or the street.
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
i have all the stock bolts but i'm running -1.0 front camber, rears aren't adjustable (-1.25R,-1.1L currently) and then 0 toe up front with 1/8" out on both sides in the back. this is working pretty well for me right now, though i haven't auto-xed on these settings yet. however, your #1 cure for understeer in a subie is...GOOD TIRES. i don't know what you're running, but good street tires can get rid of alot of understeer as long as you don't overdrive the car. depending on pressures with my race tires, i can make the car tail happy (stock everything and rally-induced alignment specs 
). its been my experience that the tires are generally the limiting factor, and that when you put real tires on the car (either race or rally) you get an unbelieveable amount of grip out of the suspension and awd (and tires of course).
). its been my experience that the tires are generally the limiting factor, and that when you put real tires on the car (either race or rally) you get an unbelieveable amount of grip out of the suspension and awd (and tires of course).I was told by an excellent auto-x driver (Tangmere) that a good setup would be -1.5 up front and -1 in the rear. I'm getting my car aligned tomorrow and that is what it's going to be set at.
Nick C.
Nick C.
just so you know, you can't adjust rear camber stock.
I know the rear camber is non-adjustable, hence the question if the one non-adjustable arm per side could be interchanged with the adjustable one. That would allow camber and toe to be adjusted in the rear.
Since when is the front camber adjustable in stock form? The top mount is fixed, and the strut to steering knuckle bolts don't have an eccentric, so they can't be adjusted either.
Since when is the front camber adjustable in stock form? The top mount is fixed, and the strut to steering knuckle bolts don't have an eccentric, so they can't be adjusted either.
there are bolts on the bottom of the strut that allow front camber adjustment. rear toe is adjustable stock, just make sure you have a really big friend to help you if you're doing it yourself. its a bitch. to adjust rear camber, all you have to do is slip in some smaller bolts. when i got my alignment done last, the guys offered to put in said bolts for $50 :lol:
After looking at the car last night, I realized the front camber is adjustable...
I ordered my rear camber adjustment bolts and 225-45-16 Kumho's, and short shifter today. I ordered my SPT springs last night...
Now hurry up UPS:run:
Now hurry up UPS:run:
Which Kuhmos? Please let me know how they fit, too.
Ecsta 712's I should have them Wed. and hopefully get them on Sat.
Be careful
If you just slip smaller bolts in the rear to get more negative camber, you have to make sure they don't let the setting slip. I found this out the hard way in Topeka last year. I started my first run out with about -2 or 3* up front and -2 in back by using smaller bolts. The rears slipped during the run and went full positive giving me wayyy too much oversteer! This, after I thought I had torqued them to the point of stretching the bolts.
After engineering some better washers and interior "eccentrics" I got them to hold. Unfortunately, world events finished my runs for the event. I think I would have beaten the next fastest subie in my class had I gotten them right the first time.
Advice? Get the camber bolts from MRT or other sources. They have a special washer that appears to lock the knuckle position much better than what I rigged together.
If you just slip smaller bolts in the rear to get more negative camber, you have to make sure they don't let the setting slip. I found this out the hard way in Topeka last year. I started my first run out with about -2 or 3* up front and -2 in back by using smaller bolts. The rears slipped during the run and went full positive giving me wayyy too much oversteer! This, after I thought I had torqued them to the point of stretching the bolts.
After engineering some better washers and interior "eccentrics" I got them to hold. Unfortunately, world events finished my runs for the event. I think I would have beaten the next fastest subie in my class had I gotten them right the first time.
Advice? Get the camber bolts from MRT or other sources. They have a special washer that appears to lock the knuckle position much better than what I rigged together.
I'm getting the Eibach eccentric camber bolts.
i'm currently running -1.6 degrees of camber up front and -1.2 (i think) in the back. no problems with tire wear - in fact, i'm wearing the outside edges a little faster than the inside ones and am thinking of going to -1.75 up front. my car's also running spring rates ~3x stiffer than stock..
you can get adjustable link sets that let you adjust rear toe and camber. they seem to be pretty hardcore - stiffer bushings and all and not designed for most street cars.
you can get adjustable link sets that let you adjust rear toe and camber. they seem to be pretty hardcore - stiffer bushings and all and not designed for most street cars.
Yeah, there's not nearly enough camber gain designed into the geometry to worry about wearing the inside edges.
Put alot of tire scrubbing toe into the mix and it's a very different story!
Those adjustable links for the back look nice, but one can really mess up the alignment if they aren't careful.
Put alot of tire scrubbing toe into the mix and it's a very different story!
Those adjustable links for the back look nice, but one can really mess up the alignment if they aren't careful.
froggert said:i'm currently running -1.6 degrees of camber up front and -1.2 (i think) in the back. no problems with tire wear - in fact, i'm wearing the outside edges a little faster than the inside ones and am thinking of going to -1.75 up front. my car's also running spring rates ~3x stiffer than stock..
you can get adjustable link sets that let you adjust rear toe and camber. they seem to be pretty hardcore - stiffer bushings and all and not designed for most street cars.
I took the car to get aligned after putting on the DMS with the suggested settings (-1.5 front, -1 rear) very nice! Solid at least up to 100 and the tires aren't squeeling as much, I still have the 'poos.
Nick C.
Nick C.
That's why they make Beano!:lol:COwannago said:I still have the 'poos.
Nick C.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Nick C.
Nick C.
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
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