[Mike M]

I've been doing some research, but haven't found anything substantial yet, so I thought I'd ask here...

Anyone have a recommendation (hard numbers, please) for a good autocross/street compromise alignment? I'm running in STS this year on my SP5000's, so I can't have anything too aggressive that will chew up my daily drivers, but I want to gain any advantage that I can.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[rosss]

Assuming strictly stock adjustment levels (i.e. you don't have camber/caster plates), I'd go with this:

Maximum negative camber in the front. The camber won't hurt your tires. (If you've got camber plates, this changes and you'd really need a tire temperature gauge to figure your camber out properly.)

Go with up to 1/8" toe-out at the front for the best overall cornering grip.

Go with up to 1/8" toe-in at the front to improve turn-in response and high-speed stability.

Set the rear to zero toe.

If you go with higher toe settings, you'll get noticably more tire wear -- ask me how I know

Those are hard numbers, like you asked, but don't be surprised if you like your settings a little different. Those should be good starting points to see what you like.

Sean
www.subrew.com

 

[Mike M]

Thanks for the info, Sean. I had gotten the idea that zero toe was the way to go in the rear, so I think now I just need to decide which way to go in front.

What about crash bolts for the front, to increase the negative camber? IIRC, there are some available from Subaru, but I don't know if it's worth it on a daily-driven car. Like I said, I don't want to go too radical on anything, and the crash bolts might allow for more negative camber than is desirable on a street car. Any thoughts?

 

[rosss]

Crash bolts would definitely get you more camber, but you might have issues with tire clearance. We don't have a helluva lot of room for tires as it is. If you lean the tire even closer to the strut, you could run into rubbing problems. A lot depends on your tires and rims and how well they fit now. If you use camber plates, you move the whole strut, so the relationship between the tire and strut body remains the same.

Have you maxed out your negative camber using the stock excentric bolt yet? If so, check to see what your clearance is like, and whether there would be room to go further with an excentric in the lower hole or not.

I've also heard of people being generally disatisfied with the crash bolt approach. I don't have any hard facts about it, just some vague hearsay. If you decide to go this route, I'd be interested to hear how it works for you.

Sean
www.subrew.com

 

[rosss]

I forgot to address your concern about camber on a street-driven car. My complete guess is that up to a couple of degrees would be fine. The only time I can imagine it causing you undue wear would be if you were crusing an interstate dead-straight for hundreds of miles. Town driving with normal cornering and such will tend to balance out the wear evenly. FWIW, everybody I've ever talked to that has had wear problems have all been caused by bad toe settings.

I personally don't know for sure about the camber though, since I haven't done it. You should see if there are other folks around that have direct experience with running more camber on their street cars.

Sean
www.subrew.com

 

[Mike M]

Thanks for all the good info, Sean. People like you are why I'm glad I own a Subaru!

I haven't yet played with the alignment at all. I've only had my car since fall, and I'm installing (with Peaty's help) a set of KYB's next weekend. Like you, I'm going to be running the stock springs with them. I know it's not the best for STS, but it's not really in the budget to do springs right now... I'm going to have a shop down in Kansas get my alignment taken care of before I try to drive back to Illinois, but I want to be able to give them some numbers to go by.

I'm inclined to stay away from the crash bolts, if only because my attempts at autocrossing really aren't that serious. I do it just because I enjoy it, and I have no delusions of being a national champion. I'm not sure it's worth the bother to install them unless it becomes apparent that they are needed.

Thanks again, and I'll let you know what I end up with and how I like it...

 

[rosss]

Thanks for the kind words!

Just to clarify -- it's Chris that uses the KYBs with stock springs (he's the G-Stock half of www.subrew.com) I run the KYBs with H&R springs, and run STS.

Regardless, having the adjustability is great, and they're great struts for the money. Good luck with it!

Sean
www.subrew.com

 

[10th Warrior]

mike, i'm running -1 degree front camber and zero front toe. in back is 1/8" toe out. on street tires (also the SP5000s) i've been quite happy. race tires, well, we'll see what happens now that its warming up

 

[beast]

I run max negative up front (which is around -1.5 degrees), and 0 toe front and back. That seems to be a good compromise. The extra camber makes the front a tiny bit darty on the freeway, but nothing too crazy.

I also run AGX's w/ stock springs, and a 20mm rear sway bar, and am very happy with it. My only complaint is that even on full soft, the AGX's could be a little more plush. =P

I just noticed a touch of extra wear on the inside shoulders of my autocross tires, due to the camber i assume. This is only because i keep driving them 60-100 miles on the highway to events. ;] The outer shoulders are still wearing faster than the rest (not enough neg. camber), but not by much.

Oh, and if you want the max negative camber from the front struts, when you put them on, have someone push in on the strut and the brake rotor, then tighten the lower mounting bolts. Once that's done, loosen the strut tower bolts, have someone lean on the strut, and tighten the tower bolts. This got me an extra -.25 degree at least on the passenger side.

 

[JoshSubaruWRX]

Sorry to bump such an old thread, but I need some input.

Setup:
96 Impreza OBS Wagon, AGX's w/ P1's, Group N hardened strut top mounts, 20mm WRX sedan rear sway, 16" WRX rims w/ RE950's.

Any reccomendations for an alignment? Daily driver w/ 10 autocrosses planned this summer. Seems most people are reccomending max neg camber up front, any neg camber you can get in the rear and 0 toe all around. Are these good specs to use or should I be looking at something else? Thanks,


--Josh

 

[ratt_finkel]

Sorry to bump such an old thread, but I need some input.

Setup:
96 Impreza OBS Wagon, AGX's w/ P1's, Group N hardened strut top mounts, 20mm WRX sedan rear sway, 16" WRX rims w/ RE950's.

Any reccomendations for an alignment? Daily driver w/ 10 autocrosses planned this summer. Seems most people are reccomending max neg camber up front, any neg camber you can get in the rear and 0 toe all around. Are these good specs to use or should I be looking at something else? Thanks,


--Josh

Different tires will help. The 950's are pretty hard.

 

[10th Warrior]

hehe, what an old thread. its funny to see what i was doing back then my how things have changed

max the camber in the front. rear isn't adjustable, though you might want to buy some eccentrics so that you can although, i'd spend the only on smaller eccentrics for the front so you can get more camber there. anyhow, probably want some toe out in the rear. if you're concerned with tire wear, probably want to stick in the neighborhood of 1/16", no more then 1/8". personally, i'd max the camber and then do an event or two to see what the car feels like and go from there.

 

[cRAzIAZZmoFO]

for those of u that has stock springs but aftermarket struts.......would anyone like to buy a BRAND SPANKIN NEW set of ground control coilovers?? their adjustable lowers up to 1.75inches, with the usual ebaich springs that ground controls come with!!! im only askin for $300 o.b.o then of course +shipping and i also have a pair of BRAND SPANKIN NEW cusco front camber plates..askin $180+shippin!!!!.......and yes ive posted these items on the for sale section before....just that they havent been sold...........

 

[omahasubaru]

I run no toe all around and prefer it that way.

I currently have 2.3 degrees negative camber up fron and 1.5 degrees negative camber in the rear.

This is with Tein Flex coilovers. I'm quite happy with the set-up, but feel for autocross, I'd be better off running different suspension.

This is for an STX prepared WRX with 17" wheels and Falkens or sometimes Kumhos.

 

[JoshSubaruWRX]

John, what did you run on your OBS, was it anything special?


--Josh

 

[ratt_finkel]

for those of u that has stock springs but aftermarket struts.......would anyone like to buy a BRAND SPANKIN NEW set of ground control coilovers?? their adjustable lowers up to 1.75inches, with the usual ebaich springs that ground controls come with!!! im only askin for $300 o.b.o then of course +shipping and i also have a pair of BRAND SPANKIN NEW cusco front camber plates..askin $180+shippin!!!!.......and yes ive posted these items on the for sale section before....just that they havent been sold...........

I would, but I'd like to stay in G-stock

 

[Storm]

Max neg camber up front w/no toe. Stock rear camber or max out the slop to your advantage, with some toe out to your taste. You can easily do this w/a set of ramps and a couple 19mm(?) wrenches when you get to the event. Back up onto the ramps and reset your eccentric bolts (AFTER MARKING THE CURRENT SETTINGS) to give you some toe out. Don't forget to put the rear toe back before you leave.

You'll love the way it works! W/ your 20mm bar...you may wanna try that alone before you add some toe out to the rears.

Post your results...including spins!

Sorry to bump such an old thread, but I need some input.

Setup:
96 Impreza OBS Wagon, AGX's w/ P1's, Group N hardened strut top mounts, 20mm WRX sedan rear sway, 16" WRX rims w/ RE950's.

Any reccomendations for an alignment? Daily driver w/ 10 autocrosses planned this summer. Seems most people are reccomending max neg camber up front, any neg camber you can get in the rear and 0 toe all around. Are these good specs to use or should I be looking at something else? Thanks,


--Josh

 

[ratt_finkel]

I'm running -1.4 in the front. And -1.6 in the rear. I now found out, my negative camber is contributing to some understeer. Don't ask me how I got that much in the rear with stock suspension, but I did.

 

[10th Warrior]

don't be suprised. IIRC, my rear is ~-1.5*. front maxes to -1.4*L, -1.3* R. it is really interesting to reread this thread, as i try new setups and improve, its fun to look back on where i've been current toe setup is 1/8" out F, 1/4" out R. probably not best if you care about wear. good enough to be the best non-celicooper and in the trophies at Nats i think the old girl has turned her last wheel in tarmac competition though. she's done me well *sniff* time to move on though. cording tires in 12 runs gets old after awhile. Ratt, a word of advice, when you go to R's, get the widest tires you can fit, center diff be damned. 245 F, 225 R. having gambled on the hoosier grip over width for Nats, i can assure you that the only way to beat the Celicas is to out-tire them. of course, they'd still have more width/lb, but its the only chance. running less tire was a mistake.

 

[ratt_finkel]

. Ratt, a word of advice, when you go to R's, get the widest tires you can fit, center diff be damned. 245 F, 225 R. having gambled on the hoosier grip over width for Nats, i can assure you that the only way to beat the Celicas is to out-tire them. of course, they'd still have more width/lb, but its the only chance. running less tire was a mistake.

I plan too, and next year, not to be cocky. I plan to bring home a trophy for the suby side.