[grethi]

I have a 00 L wagon (4EAT 2.2 n/a) that I'm fond of, but I find myself looking more and more at the RS coupes. I step back and compare the two, and I realize what I want on the L will probably cost me as much as just buying a RS outright. I almost bought a RS when I first got into subarus, but the only one in my price range was too riced out with 150k on the clock. The only OBS available in the area at the time was being sold for 4k more than it was worth per KBB. I didn't even have the option of 5MT at the time. I also didn't know about this site at the time.

L pros: sleeper, cargo capacity, not a lot of people modify wagons.
L cons: slow, not given any respect by trucks/SUVs, all the toys I have to install myself, auto trans.

RS pros: more performance, more style, more toys (cruise, sunroof, ect.), manual trans.
RS cons: little less gas mileage (not a biggie), more visible to cops, more expensive insurance.

Should I give in to my wants, or try to upgrade the 2.2 4EAT to at least a 2.5 5MT? I don't even know what the conversion would cost...

I realize there is a distinct bias in this forum, but it's a site dedicated to the RS 2.5, (gee, no bias there) and a wagon forum within (same problem). I suppose I could always go to nasioc and get a response insisting I move to a WRX because n/a is too slow...

 

[Alpine.$tar^]

Is your L fwd or Awd? I have a 96 obs 2.2 5spd awd and i don't think the 2.2 is all that bad. they are known for being the most reliable motor that subaru has ever made. Maybe you should consider another option of just swapping in a manual transmission.

 

[grethi]

It's AWD, and I would certainly consider finding a 2.2 MT if I could. Most of the ones I've seen have been treated as throw-away items. I definitely don't have the money to do a rebuild on top of an installation. I also don't have the space or downtime to do a conversion at home. That means having it done professionally. We all know that's a lot of money. With the full drivetrain, I can at least write it off as "necessary for the motor change." Flawed reasoning, but denial works for me.

One of the big things for me is that I want some real "get up and go" for the puget sound traffic. It's virtually a daily occurence that Dodge Rams, assorted SUVs, and semis try to merge over me or less than a foot from my bumpers ( not because they don't have room to merge further away from me than that, just because they don't feel like it). When I get put in an "OH, S***!" position on a highway, I want to be able to get out of it as quickly as I can. Maybe it's the 4EAT, but when I put the pedal to the floor, she is pretty sluggish to answer.
It's funny. SHe has enough low-end torque enough to make the front end lurch from a stop when the light turns green, but not enough to make the car go when I need to put the pedal down. Especially up hill, since both commutes require hillclimbing.

I would love to find an EJ22T, if only I could get my hands on a reliable one...

 

[italsupra10]

If you're having this conversation with yourself, I'd suggest getting an RS. Its not a FAST car, but its quite nimble and pulls surprisingly well. Also, it doesn't attract police attention as you mentioned.... mine is rally blue (bright, noticeable color) and I rarely ever get stopped by the police... like maybe twice in the 6.5 years I've owned it.

I also have an automatic L sedan and while I think its also a fine car (for what it is) the RS is a noteably more "fun" car. If you find one in decent shape (which is getting hard to find nowadays) for a reasonable price, I wouldn't hesitate telling you to get it. You won't regret the change...

 

[gf4l1fe]

Have you considered swapping the ej22 for a ej25?

I've been looking at getting a RS or L coupe as my 3rd subbie but there's no way I could give up the cargo room of the wagon.

 

[Alpine.$tar^]

if your getting the swap done professionally a place like ECS does it flat rate. Motor Only 2750 and Motor/tranny 3000. There are things like 500 credit for your original motor and 150 off for being a rs25 member, but still that extra amount for the install is definetly enough to buy a 2.5rs or a obs if you want to still have a wagon.

 

[skytigress]

In the meantime, so you don't get run over by other people... I recommend a pair of these:

How come you got an auto? Mine seems to be pretty decent torque-wise with the 5spd. Passing power is definitely lacking though.. I agree. But it's not appalling like a Geo Prizm.

My recommendation is just selling it (people always want wagons, and with winter approaching you will have a fast sale) and find another L or OBS with a 5spd.

 

[susiemk]

I like the 2.2, with a few simple mods you can better the performance of the car for a little cash.

Attached is an OLD post on my '99 MAP 2.2l OBS's track performance back when it was N/A.
Looking back @ the times & my shifting @ redline & bet I could have hit the high 15's on the Little 2.2l if I had shifted @ 5500RPMs or hit the track on a none 90*+ day.
Plugging the Weight, 1/4 mile time, & trap speed into a HP calculator give crank HP @ a little over 160.

http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49952

HP calculator =
http://www.fastcoolcars.com/hp_calculator.htm

Why bother with the blown headgasket headaches of a 2.5 when you can get a decent increase in performance from your own Reliable, Efficient, 2.2l motor CHEAPLY.

 

[susiemk]

My times are the last ones on the above post, & the crank HP is estimated @ 168 based on plugging in my 1/4 mile time in the above HP calculator - the 2.5l is just 165HP.

Mods that were on my car to get the above times are listed in the above link.

 

[gf4l1fe]

Why bother with the blown headgasket headaches of a 2.5 when you can get a decent increase in performance from your own Reliable, Efficient, 2.2l motor CHEAPLY.

This is true.

A lot of people over on USMB swap in a 2.2 instead of fixing/new 2.5 after headgasket issues.

 

[skytigress]

While the 2.5 has HG 'issues', I've never heard anything worse happening after they were properly replaced and the heads were refinished properly.

I will be swapping a 2.5 into my L wagon in the future.

Susiemk: How do you have Borla headers on your 2.2? Did you switch heads or do you have a different phase of the 2.2 that has the dual port exhaust manifolds?
It's just not fair I can't find a header for my 2.2 uppy_dog .. stupid single port heads and Borla not making single port headers anymore.. grrrr

 

[grethi]

The horns are DEFINITLEY NECCESSARY. About 45 minutes ago, I was driving home from work and a minivan tried running me off the road for no other reason than I was there. I could do nothing but slam on the brakes and be thankful there wasn't another car behind me for 1000+ feet.

My 2.2 had bad headgaskets when I bought it (80k miles). a few hours at PIA, and it was fixed with no further problems. for that matter, the 1600 in my VW has head gasket problems. In spite of that, it and it's descendants have survived hundreds of thousands of miles or driving hard.

I didn't go for a 5mt because at the time there weren't any for sale in the area. I wasn't in a position to go to Portland or CA to buy a car...
At any rate, it wasn't for lack of want.

What would it run to just replace a trans, I wonder? As much as a full swap would be nice, $3k is a little more than I can set aside right now.

 

[ony]

if you are gonnna replace the trans replace it with an RS auto, going manual you lose your gear ratio

http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397

 

[andrewarm]

Well I'm thinking of going the other way. I have a 99 RS and want a wagon. Where are you from?

 

[Alpine.$tar^]

there you go trade plus cash or w.e and your all set.

 

[skytigress]

The horns are DEFINITLEY NECCESSARY. About 45 minutes ago, I was driving home from work and a minivan tried running me off the road for no other rason than I was there. I could do nothing but slam on the brakes and be thankful there wasn't another car behind me for 1000+ feet.

Dude that really sucks. You need to get those horns ASAP! One will suffice in most cases, but for you...(you said you live in Mass right? Haha.."they dont call 'em Massholes for nothing".. as I was told) I would say two should do the trick. I have the same horn but the 'truck version' that just came out. You can buy them from Griot's Garage btw.

www.[B]stebel[/B].it/ <--for sound clips

 

[susiemk]

While the 2.5 has HG 'issues', I've never heard anything worse happening after they were properly replaced and the heads were refinished properly.

I will be swapping a 2.5 into my L wagon in the future.

Susiemk: How do you have Borla headers on your 2.2? Did you switch heads or do you have a different phase of the 2.2 that has the dual port exhaust manifolds?
It's just not fair I can't find a header for my 2.2 uppy_dog .. stupid single port heads and Borla not making single port headers anymore.. grrrr

Never had Borla headers on my Wagon as they supposedly crack if you look @ them too long & I have a up-pipe & turbo to support now.

The mods on the wagon to get it to run 16.33 were
Intake
Grounds
Crank Pulley
Redline fluids
WRX cat-back + a custom 2.25" single cat / pipe connecting from the Stock manifold to the WRX cat-back

To be honest the exhaust was the least noticable mod in terms of a gain in performance & if i had to do it again I'd try the car out with everything except the exhaust as a WRX exhaust on a N/A car sounds like ass.

When I first turbo'd my wagon I still had the WRX exhaust on it & it was SUPER quiet with or without a CAT - I guess these need a turbo to quiet things down.

As far as the 2.5l's go everyone (100%) I know that had a N/A 2.5l has had MULTIPLE headgasket problems.
That motor just plain sucks.

 

[susiemk]

ej22t - these are not really fast stock as they run just 8.7psi & no intercooler best case stock.

I have a '94 Legacy SS than had a ej22t in it stock & put a FMIC, 3"TBE, K&N filter, + other small mods on it & it was still pretty slow on the stock VF11 turbo - granted this car is much heavier than an Impreza so the ej22t should feel much better in it.
This motor has alot of potential, but will require some work/mods to get it to pull hard.

Stock 0-60 times on my 4eat LSS were 9.70 seconds - not fast @ all.
0-60 times on the ej22t with all of the bolt-ons running right below boost cut (10psi) was 7.48 seconds.

I put a EJ20G in my Legacy SS & that motor has MUCH better top-end than the ej22t ever did.
I ran about 14psi on a TD04 for a while & now run around 18psi on a TD05-16G/e-l header combo & it pulls pretty good....

The ej22t shortblock is very nice & has Great potential once the rods/pistons have been replaced.

 

[skytigress]

As far as the 2.5l's go everyone (100%) I know that had a N/A 2.5l has had MULTIPLE headgasket problems.
That motor just plain sucks.

I'm new to Subaru's so I don't know what it was with 2.5's that caused headgasket problems, but as far as I read, it affected 97-98 phases of the motor. Is it a design flaw similar to what Toyota did to the MK3 Supra motors?
My friend on here---GC8Love also has a 01' 2.5RS sedan with 120kish miles with never a HG problem. My bf has a 00' coupe but eh, that's not worth mentioning, he's only had it for 9 months so far. No HG issues but both have oil pan gasket leaks though.. :lol:

 

[grethi]

As far as I'm aware, the block is iron and the heads are aluminum. the two heat up at different rates, and so the they expand at different rates. the changes stretch and destroy the gaskets.
Like I said, the EJ22T would be a great engine. It's also more than a decade old, so it would definitely need work. Great Potential, though.

I actually live in Tacoma, WA. My carshopping has been pretty much limited to the Puget Sound. Plenty of options, just not one I like.