[Graham]

Alright, I have said that I would post this.

All of you guys considering RWD Impreza's must read this, as drifting seems to be the reason you want to go to RWD (as well as less tranny trouble, but im still not convinced it will help). What I say is just take a look at the machines we admire. Look at the Subaru WRC, the Puegot 206 WRC, or even the 2.5 RS-T's of Knight Racing in the SCCA Pro Rally circuit. All of these cars use HYDRAULIC Handbrakes to get their cars sideways in corners when they're power just can't. It is the only way to go. If they wanted to be able to drift easier, they would use RWD, but think of the traction and in turn time, they would use by doing this. Thats why the Hydraulic Handbrake must be designed for out drifting troubles, not the conversion to RWD. Our cable operated handbrake's aren't enough, they just don't grip to the desired limit. The Hydraulic Handbrake will provide so much more bite, allowing MUCH less effort to tossing the car into a controlled drift.
I ask anyone to shed some light on this topic. As I said before, I think our cars have a VERY high "Driftability" factor, and its abilities need to be utilized to the fullest.

What do you think?



Graham

 

[Hndatch627]

well i know for a fact that the Subaru WRC car has an electronically controlled center diff that unlocks the rear as soon as the E-brake handle is pulled, as far as the hydraulics go you are totally correct. Hydraulics offer 3000 psi of pressure where with mechanical linkages you will maybe see 700-1000 psi of brake pressure. Personally i don't want RWD, if i wanted RWD i'd get a corvette then you get the best of everything for the money. I love my car the way it is.

 

[scoobyrs25]

You should never use your parking brake for anything other than parking. You will only destroy your brakes and tranny.
Kevin

 

[Graham]

Kevin, not to be an ass, but cold elaborate?


Graham

 

[scoobyrs25]

If you lock up the rears using a mechanical diff, you will destroy it. The rears don't lock up because the diff won't let them, not because of them being insufficiant. You would need a diff that is called a one way diff, in the RC car world. It allows the rears to stop rolling while the fronts continue.
Kevin

 

[Graham]

Interesting Point, and like you I used to huge into RC cars (i.e. had Losi Street Weapon, XX4 Buggy, Losi Kinwald Edition Buggy). If you are correct then this idea would no be good for the car, though I have never heard of anyone messing up a tranny because via too much use of handbrake. Jeremy could you shed any light on this topic?


Graham

 

[scoobyrs25]

Ya, I think they made the parking brake rather weak as a way to make sure crazy yahoos like us don't brake the center diff, or worse.
Kevin

 

[wop]

yup... hand brake + AWD = BAD!!!

try these:

Kansei Drift- this is performed at race speeds, when entering a high speed corner a driver lifts his foot off the throttle to induce a mild over steer and then balances the drift through steering and throttle motions. (note the car that is being used for this style of drift should be a neutral balanced car therefore the over steer will induce itself, if the car plows through any turn this technique will not work)

Braking drift- this is performed by trail braking into a corner, then loss of grip is obtained and then balance through steering and throttle motions. (note this is mainly for medium to low speed corners)

Faint Drift- this is performed by rocking the car towards the outside of a turn and then using the rebound of grip to throw the car into the normal cornering direction. (note this is heavy rally racing technique used to change vehicle attitudes during cornering, mainly tight mountain corners)

Clutch Kick- this is performed by depressing the clutch pedal on approach or during a mild drift, then pop the clutch to give a sudden jolt through the driveline to upset rear traction.

Shift Lock- this is performed by letting the revs drop on downshift into a corner and then releasing the clutch to put stress on the driveline to slow the rear tires inducing over steer. (this is like pulling the E-brake through a turn - note this should be performed in the wet to minimize damage to the driveline etc)

Dirt Drop Drift- this is performed by dropping the rear tires off the road into the dirt to maintain or gain drift angle without losing power or speed and to set up for the next turn. (note this technique is very useful for low horsepower cars)

Jump Drift- in this technique the rear tire on the inside of a turn or apex is bounced over a curb to lose traction resulting in over steer.

Swaying Drift- this is a slow side-to-side faint like drift where the rear end sways back and forth down a strait.

Power Over- this performed when entering a corner and using full throttle to produce heavy oversteer (tail slide) through the turn. (note need horsepower to make this happen)

I gotta ask... graham do you drift?

-***

this is for kevin:

 

[Jon Bogert]

Like this:

Or this:

Both from www.tas.uk.com. I have the top one rigged to the stock handbrake lever in my Celica. It works fine with the VC center diff (same as on Imprezas) as long as you only use it briefly.

As for "drifting" I'll keep my mouth shut.

 

[scoobyrs25]

Ya, I wouldn't dare use it on pavement.
Kevin

 

[STiShawn]

learn to left foot brake to drift the car better on loose/slick surfaces. Once you learn how to do it, your speed on dirt will be much higher..and as a cool bonus, your brake rotors glow when you do it a lot.:nuetron:

 

[wop]

Ya, I wouldn't dare use it on pavement.
Kevin

no doubt... you do not need to e-brake to drift on tarmac!!! bad stuff...

-***

 

[Graham]

***- Do I drift? Well, in that regard, I try my. Its not something that I do regularly, due to the fact that I live in the city and there's not many dirt road around. But thats not to say that I haven't been known to make a quick trip up to the local "super slick" parking lots around town. Sometimes in random corners, even when its not wet, i'll give the handbrake a "little" tug and get the rear end loose. If your wondering if I go to drifting meets and stuff, then no, im not that hardcore, but maybe if I had a better handbrake.

Joe- so with the handbrake that you are using, is there a lighter pull required on the handbrake, allowing the back-end to come out easier? So your saying that as long as the handbrake is applied for a short amount of time, there shouldn't be any damage to the drivetain?


Graham

 

[wop]

***- Do I drift? Well, in that regard, I try my. Its not something that I do regularly, due to the fact that I live in the city and there's not many dirt road around. But thats not to say that I haven't been known to make a quick trip up to the local "super slick" parking lots around town. Sometimes in random corners, even when its not wet, i'll give the handbrake a "little" tug and get the rear end loose. If your wondering if I go to drifting meets and stuff, then no, im not that hardcore, but maybe if I had a better handbrake.

Graham

that's cool... but I will refrain from the e-brake at all cost unless on a dirt road or snow...

-***

 

[Hndatch627]

FYI the E-brake in the cars is not underpowered. it does exactly what it was meant to do which is hold the car still while parked. As far as the bad things that happen, yes you can break/burn out the center diff by locking the rear wheels to start drifting. The whole purpose of hte center diff is to make sure all 4 wheels are going the same speed(with a slight margin for error) but locking the rear wheels still will definitely break something.