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'01 RS+t STM
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Quick question on this stuff. So I've got a turbo EJ251 with delta 1500's and cam's + 2bar map. Car runs fine when warm, drives around and whatnot. My issue is when it's warming up it goes lean to rich for a bit and hunts. Also, if I give the throttle a quick stab it gets lean.

For part a)
I found the startup compensation thing, and I'm using an automatic ecu (car is manual) with my idle at 1000 rpm. Any reason why the AT and MT don't use the same factor for correcting (one is coolant, one is throttle position)? Any suggestions with this

For part b)
I've got nothing....
Presuming the AT uses TPS, because the transmission needs to know engine load to determine which gear. But can you confirm that it is the AT that uses TPS? If it's coolant, that's why I can't make a good tune!
 

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2000 Impreza 2.5RS
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This is amazing, and perfect timing for me to find this.

Just about to pull the trigger on a super old Link G1 for a 257/251 turbo build im piecing together right now.
This is looking like a much better option from what i have read so far.

Subscribing for future updates, OP would you be alright with me sending you a PM with all the specs of my setup to see if this would work for my goals?

Great work on this btw, cant believe you figured all this own in a sort of diy/trial and error sort of fashion. A+
 

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2000 2.5RS BRP
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1,175 Posts
Discussion Starter #63
I'm noodling with the latest version this weekend. There's a new template that uses the MAP sensor for power fueling instead of the TPS (966X). I like its capabilities so far.

I did have to reset the ECU and fiddle with my mapping a bit. Transition to open loop is pretty seamless. I can tailor the switchover to open loop. Throttle gets meaner, much quicker. My setup is all about throttle opening and this new template helps to amplify that. Revs jump quicker from idle. It used to jump to 4k at a stab. Now it jumps to 5k. Letting the clutch out and giving it throttle feels sharper than it ever has.

My inability to raise the rev limit may have been a tuning issue all along. I have a breakup at 6500rpm that is lessening a bit depending on fuelling, or adding a bit more air with the IAC at higher RPM. I go past that point a few times cleanly. Then, it starts to break up right at that point, but everything else feels ok. It will pull past the break-up, but I don't want to hurt the motor. It is still just a stock 2.0L.
 

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2002 Subaru Impreza
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16 Posts
Sorry if this is completely obvious, but is this tuning software set up for an aftermarket turbo application? I downloaded the software and didn't see any boost maps.
I do realize that project lambda is relatively new and is still being updated.

Btw I'm so glad that flashing our ECU's is now possible :D Huge thanks to those involved.
 

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The subaru of many acronyms
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Yeah its a tuning software you can do whatever you want, theres just not any kinda base maps for aftermarket setups. Building your own base map for a turbo setup isn't too hard though, a bit of rescaling for the higher maf load or map psi, maybe scale in a higher reading sensor or two, pull timing as load/boost increases add richer fuel targets with the increasing load/boost. proabably hit a point where you need to scale in larger injectors aswell etc.
 

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2000 2.5RS BRP
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1,175 Posts
Discussion Starter #67
Yes, you need the dongle.

I'm still working on cranking and idle with the new template. Start up takes a bit and it dies coming back to idle from a rev.

This new template makes very good power and driveability, though. I've got enough response to drift in the wet by rolling into the throttle. That's on a mechanically detuned 2.0L N/A (still no AVCS.) It spins coming out of corners in the dry in the first 3 gears.

I have had to massage the fueling to make it happy, pulling out a bit of fuel in the power tables. I'm not pulling as much fuel in the decel tables, anymore. The STFT would jump up when the decel fuel compensation was applied, so I left more fuel in to compensate. Leaning it out properly has done wonders, but I'm not 100% happy with it just yet. Happy with progress, but aiming for perfection.
 

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Discussion Starter #69
My dying idle problem is resolved. It would drown out when settling down to idle from a throttle stab. Revs would jump quick, but it would die on the way back down at idle. When I run it up and then shift into neutral, it would stumble and stall at idle after the rev settled. I leaned out the AFR in open loop at idle and now it's happy.

Open loop is set to come in a bit over 10% throttle because of the insane throttle response. Everywhere I cruise, I'm typically at or below 10% throttle. It stays in open loop in neutral after stabbing the throttle for a bit. I never worked on that little section of the map because I never thought it went there. It's plain as day on the logs after repeating the bug a few times.
 

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2002 Subaru Impreza
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Yeah its a tuning software you can do whatever you want, theres just not any kinda base maps for aftermarket setups. Building your own base map for a turbo setup isn't too hard though, a bit of rescaling for the higher maf load or map psi, maybe scale in a higher reading sensor or two, pull timing as load/boost increases add richer fuel targets with the increasing load/boost. proabably hit a point where you need to scale in larger injectors aswell etc.
Sweet! This is great news. :banana: I've never had any experience tuning before, but will need to be able to tune in the future. I just picked up an emanage ultimate and was about to chop up my harness to install it before finding this thread... It seems like this tuning solution beats the emanage in pretty much every aspect?

What effects do the boost maps have for factory turbo'd cars? Are they anything that would be needed on a boosted N/A, or are they just for the factory turbo'd ecus to monitor?
I do realize that I'd have to stick with a manual boost controller, but that's not a big deal.
 

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2000 2.5RS BRP
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1,175 Posts
Discussion Starter #71
That's the thing---There is no "boost map". You can scale the same fuel and spark tables for the new map sensor. Since my build is N/A, I use 17kPa to 101kPa for the columns. A 3bar map sensor would be scaled from 17kpa to 300kPa (high vacuum to 28psi). You get 16 columns and 16 rows and have to make them work. You can scale the existing tables for boost, but there are no extra boost or wastegate tables.
 

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2000 2.5RS BRP
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Discussion Starter #73
I'm tuning for 93 on the new kpa based power enrichment. Runs really well. The top end break up was due to running too rich. Will post a raised redline video when I get it perfect.
 

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Discussion Starter #74 (Edited)
(Added to the main page)

I'll see if I can explain some of the finer points of E85 tuning with this software. (Forgive me if I go in a few circles. You will have to read this a few times to get it.) Mike is great about customer support, but these little things could use a bit of explanation in print. Cleaning up the fuel adjustments is more the point of writing this. I adjust these finer points to eliminate bogs, pops, and improve mileage. Throttle response got a lot sharper from minding a few of these smaller details in the mapping. Nobody really seems to be talking about this stuff, so I figure you're doing ok on your own or might not notice an issue.

I'll work my way down the table menus on the left of the software and just explain adjustments at each node.

Global Adjustments

The first place to start is load scaling. There were two twists here for my specific combo--440 injectors and a smaller displacement engine. These hard figures for me will be different than yours.

Gas - .04247
E85 - .05589

Note the difference of 25% between these load scales, roughly equivalent to the requirement of 20% more fueling with E85. That's the important part. I bumped up the difference due to running a richer target AFR on E85. A higher load scaling brought the STFT fuel trims within +/-5% on E85. My LTFTs really do never move.

Further regarding the global setup, turn off the fuel temperature sensor on E85. Ethanol runs colder, so this sensor will detect colder temps. Turning this off is one less thing to confuse the PCM. Turn off P0181, P0182, and P0183--all the fuel temp sensor codes. You don't have to, but I do so for the sake of cleanliness after turning off the sensor.

I also lowered the fan operating temperatures about 2C. Your choice of thermostat means more to these figures than the fuel. Ethanol runs colder, so I turn this down a little bit for shits and giggles.

Finer adjustments

I set injector end angle to 235deg across the board, except for 400-800rpm. You're setting when the injector turns off. In turn, the PCM adjusts when it comes on in reference to crankshaft angle. If I had usability of my engine's AVCS, I'd spend more time dialing in this table. Trying to add a gradient to this table makes the engine feel like it's playing scales on an instrument. Flattening this out with a static figure made my throttle feel more flat and torquey instead of quite so "v-tec" like.

Injector Offset is 1.74

Minimum pulsewidth is lowered to 1.22, since my injectors are bigger. Lowering this
cleans up idle AFR. Going too far will lean it out under power, though.

I'll skip base fueling adjustments here because this is so specific to my twin throttle manifold. A turbo would look just as "weird" to a beginner. My cranking fuel settings on twins is a little different, too.

Power fueling isa bit easier to explain

Initial fuel ratio is set between .853-.823 lambda through the rpm band.
Final fuel ratio is set between .848-.805 lambda through the rpm band.

These are about half a point leaner than a turbo would like, IMO. I'll swap in colder plugs before trying to lean it out any more.

Blend delay is 2.
Enable delay is 3.

I set these timers lower to speed up response to open loop fueling. It doesn't ask me a few times if I really mean it by working the throttle more than once.

Throttleenable for me is 14%-11% below 3600. Above that, is 0% so it's always in open loop when the cams are on power.

Load enable is set to 59kPa and 49kPa for me, so anything past cruise kPa triggers open loop. I only have closed loop fueling slightly enabled for highway cruising. Anything more triggers open loop fueling pretty quickly.

For timing, I aim for 32deg total. Any more than that becomes sensitive to knock with high temperatures even on E85. This is where I need to see if colder plugs help out at all. Playing a bit conservative here, but still toeing the line enough.

Idle air adjustments I've had to play with a lot because of my twin throttles. I've had to adjust nothing between gas and ethanol here.

Temperature sensors I didn't adjust.

Warmup fueling I shaved a bit off of, and here's why. After getting cranking fuel dialed in, it would then die out while warming up, with STFT's often being +20-30%. Pulling 20-30% out of these warmup table figures brought STFT back in line. Pulling back some fuel here kept the engine from drowning out in fuel while warming up.

Acceleraton enrichment was very crucial to me because of my intake manifold, less so because of the fuel. For you, adding a little bit of fuel on tip-in isn't a bad thing. Adjust the 2nd table, enrichment compensation, instead of the accel enrichment. You're adjusting a percentage this way, instead of a global adjustment. It's a finer adjustment on the 2nd table, and that's all it needs. When I was playing on the first table, it was adding too much fuel with incremental adjustments.

Decel enlean is like accel enrich. As much fuel as you're putting in, this takes it out. If you lift the throttle and get a fireball, then pulling fuel here eliminates the fireball. If you get an intake pop when you lift the throttle, then you need more fuel during decel. Pretty straight forward, here.

Deceleration fuel cut is the last table on the list. You're on your own with this one. I have a higher idle, smaller engine, and bigger injectors. My figures here would be nothing like the rest of you. The only thing I can say reliably is that you can adjust here if you're engine is dying out as it approaches idle.

The largest problem that I have tackled has been overly rich fueling at the wrong times. That's what all these little side tables have helped me fix. Make datalogs, then adjust. Rinse. Repeat. STFT's have been my guide. The stock o2 sensor is a little slow to respond, but you're at it's mercy to make everything work happily. Keeping that sensor happy keeps the PCM happy.

Cleaning up the fueling makes a night and day difference in how the throttle feels. Mileage improved, along with power. Adjustments are more intricate than just a global figure. If you like statistics, then you'll like noodling with these numbers.
 

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2002 Subaru Impreza
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Thanks for posting this and keeping us updated. That is very useful to know as I had no real idea of what changing those parameters/maps would do. I'm just starting to do some general tuning for the first time, so this thread is a huge help. Thanks!
 

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95/99 Brighton STi
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Can someone give a run-down on how a wideband o2 should be set up for data logging in a 99 STi
 

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Tubaru Pickup
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Can someone give a run-down on how a wideband o2 should be set up for data logging in a 99 STi
when you say 99 sti, is that with the v5/v6 non avcs ej207 heads? you should be able to use regular open source with those with an 02-05 wrx ecu

would require the harness and switching to coil packs and the throttle body
 

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Ohh, can't wait until I get this. Will be purchasing in the next few months.

Does anyone have any experience using this with the n/a 2.0, or will I be frontier-ing this ordeal?

ImprezaRSC, will be wanting your expertise with the 93 fuel map.
 

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when you say 99 sti, is that with the v5/v6 non avcs ej207 heads? you should be able to use regular open source with those with an 02-05 wrx ecu

would require the harness and switching to coil packs and the throttle body
yes v5/6 EJ207. I'm not interested at this time in buying a harness, sending it out to be merged, converting my engine electronics, etc.

I've already purchased the tuning software and bluessm. I've saved a base map, and flashed a map with minor revisions. I'd like to get an E-tune so I need to data log but I'm hesitant to just wire my AEM w/b 02 signal output to the ECU o2 input without getting some advice first.
 

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Ive been talking with mike a bit about this, hes tried the rear o2 with the voltage out put from an external wideband. That didnt work so well as the signal was a bit fuzzy. So Serial wideband logging should be in the works. If you need to log wideband youll have to use some other software to log it via serial.
 
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