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1997 Brighton 2.5
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Can you break 200 with bolt ons? If any of you remember the debate at that other place, it got heated. So here's the rules:

1) Bolt ons does not include cams, those are internal.
2) Tubos bolt on. That is fi, not n/a.
3) Pullies count, because they translate into HP at the wheels. Good enough for me to mathamatically figure them into the 200, at the crank.
4) I know that you can get 200 other ways than n/a and bolt ons, it's my post though, and my rules. Wanna argue? There's a fights forum. Go there and start your own thread to booger up with senseless ramblings.

So can anyone prove they've done it? Dyno figures, even G-Techs with a good margin? For the record, I say it can be done. I'll post my formula once everyone hashes it out a bit.
 

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Here is my thought on it. 200 is a little high but for bolt ons I would break it down as such:

CAI and high flow filter = 10 HP
Catback exhaust = 5 HP
Headers = 5 HP
Pulleys = 3 HP

That's about all I can think of right now.

So, 165 + 10 + 5 + 3 = 183 HP.

If you add a chip, maybe an extra 5 HP.

That's all I can think of at this hour ...

Keenan
 

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1997 Brighton 2.5
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Discussion Starter #3
From what I hear if you've got a chip in the RS, and then piss down the intake, you'll have piss. Well, that and $300 less.

Anyone hear anything different, confirmed?

I think an AFC has been proven to help a little, with mods.
 

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Your gonna need alot of cash to make it 200hp. Check out Cobb Tuning's site as you'll find good information there. Oh you can't add up the extra horse power per item and get 183hp cause each mod will affect each other in the power range. I don't know if it's possible to actually get 200 from simple bolt on mods but you could get close with additional tuning.

Ken
 

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2004 Forester XTi
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CAI Intake
high flow air filter
equal length headers
high flow cat
performance cat back
lightened/UD pulleys
lightened tires
spark plug wires
performance spark plugs
fuel cleaner (restore hp)
and yes, the power chip.

That should be good for bolt-ons.
 

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You know, before Shiv turbocharged his RS, he was doing bolt ons. As I recall, he had a Stromung, Ganzflow CAI, and some S-AFC or equivilent, and managed to get something like 190hp.

It's in SCC magazine - shall I go see if I can find that article and post the parts?
 

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Steetman...

I have the CAI/Amsoil filter, Lightweight Pulleys, Catback. It seems fast enough for me. If you want to go for a ride sometime let me know. The Catback is a little loud for me so I might be getting rid of it. Dale and I are going to Anderson this Saturday for an autocross. Come on up and I'll give you a ride!

RS25.com...If you don't have anything else to do I would like to see the list. Thanks

Chris C.
 

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2000 Subaru Impreza 2.5 RS Asp
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i'm sure you could get it bolt on's.

but would you consider a ecu upgrade a bolt on?

i think the big thing would be the fuel.

upgraded fuel pump and injectors (maybe rails too)
ecu upgrade
intake
full exhaust
underdrive pulley
8mm wires and better plugs.

i think you have a chance of 200 with a setup like that but it would cost you an arm and leg.
 

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I think it's possible to get 200hp to the crank. Definitely NOT to the wheels.

Intake
Exhaust
Headers
High flow Cat
Pulleys
Torque Chip
Spark plugs and wires
 

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1997 Brighton 2.5
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Discussion Starter #10
RS25.com-

You are correct. Shiv Dyno tested the '99 up to 190. The kicker was the S-AFC. He was lossing power on some mods without it. I have the article (somewhere). If I recall, it's somewhere around March, April, maybe May, or 2000. Maybe the third or so in the Project 2.5 series. I'll see what I can find.

So here's my thoughts. In 2 years, someone has had to find an extra 10 ponies with bolt ons. Using his car as the ONLY example of real dyno tuning, and then throwing in Bruellen headers with high flow cat, and you're real close.

Good call, kickin_81, on the equal length headers. Any brands out there since Bruellen? But the fuel cleaner? HP in a bottle stuff? Please, tell me you didn't just say that.

And as far as the torque chip goes, has anyone seen that proven by anything besides a butt dyno? I don't want to turn this into the bitch session that debate was. A simple link would suffice.

Off to find that damn SCC.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
2Point5RS-

Yeah, 200 at the wheels would only be accomplished by bolting on something like a Chevy LT1. Don't think that's all that feasible. My explanation of the pulleys counting at the crank was a little goofy. Here's clarity, maybe.

You'll have to measure the HP at the wheels. Backward figuring will tell you in a % gain, what you have gained at the crank. Even though things like lightweight pulleys don't produce more HP at the crank, I consider it good enough to translate, in my head, because I'll feel it in my ass when I hit the gas. The only reason manufacturers use wheel HP is to look better in magazines, and commercials. Could you imagine Subaru boasting the RS pushes an amazing 91 HP!

That being said, I need a little more than 20% gain over stock.
165 HP X 1.20 = 198

Technically, I need 20.48193% gain, using Subaru's figure of 166 HP. That shouldn't be too hard to find. Hasn't anyone done it?

Could I be the first to go over 200 HP, proven, with bolt ons? Damn, I can't wait to start on this. Who wants to be my friend now?
 

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MY98 2.5RS Coupe Brilliant Red
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Well, good luck with this endevor. You certainly have set a high standard of excellence, and I'm sure if you do EVERYTHING possible, you'll come close.

As for some of your thoughts/mods, the Brullen system is far from "equal length", not to knock em, even though I have that system. Their engineering/design as well could possibly try to get the 4-2-1 primaries a tad bit better, but I don't have access to the correct software/machinery to try to make this happen. Overall, I'm happy with the system, but if you're going for the maximum HP figure, I've heard the best way to go is the Borla headers/random tech cat/stromung cat-back system. It sounds absolutely incredible and provides some decent gains. I haven't put my car on a dyno, and without the stock exhaust it'll be hard to judge the gains. However, the Borla/Random/Stromung has been proven numerous times.

Just my thoughts on it, though I'm not out to try to do the same thing, it could prove to be an interesting goal.
 

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MRT Rally makes equal length headers, and I will be getting a set as soon as they come in stock. $583 for the ENTIRE exhaust - headers to the back box.

Oh, and I have a G-Tech so I can test some "sorta" numbers to give us an idea of what is really going on. At least with my setup! :p
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I've seen a number of baselines at around 165 to the crank, and about 91 at the wheels. I'm not too picky about one or two horse, provided you see OVER 200, with a fair margin.

Let's say civil court standards, by a preponderance of evidence. Or, to fully settle it, should I require that we prove this beyond a reasonable doubt?

preponderance-Streetman throws out an 8 point word.
 

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I think a lot of this has to deal with the car itself. Some are beasts stock, and will beat slighty modified engines.

Right now.. as is, with a stromung DT, ganzflow intake, and a K&N filter, I am putting down 126 to the wheels. What do you think I'm putting to the flywheel now?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
What did you use to measure that? A two wheel dyno will show much higher numbers due to less driveline friction losses. If that's AWD, 126 to the wheels...WOW!

126 / 91 = 38.46% increase. That would be 229.85 HP at the crank. No way with those mods. A turbo at 3-5 psi would be needed to see that.

If someone has a baseline for testing in 2WD, you could figure it somewhat accuratly with that.
 

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Streetman said:
What did you use to measure that? A two wheel dyno will show much higher numbers due to less driveline friction losses. If that's AWD, 126 to the wheels...WOW!

126 / 91 = 38.46% increase. That would be 229.85 HP at the crank. No way with those mods. A turbo at 3-5 psi would be needed to see that.

If someone has a baseline for testing in 2WD, you could figure it somewhat accuratly with that.
You're also assuming that my car came with 91HP stock. That's the reason you're getting that strange number. Every car is different. I insist that my car is a beast in stock form. :D
 

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I don't recall anyone actually ever posting a true dyno run with the chip. There was one run with chip and exhaust that made something near 7 - 10 hp but it was a big debate and more than likely just a product of the aftermarket exhaust system.

I will admit this. I have the "chip". If I had it to do all over again I would rather have the S-AFC. At least this way I have control over what is happening. The best way to get max HP is to use all those bolt on's, including the S-AFC and then find a dyno and dyno tune. You are sure to get almost the max hp you can out of your parts.


Shawn
 

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quick question... would you consider heads a bolt-on? if so there's 20-30hp easy. also you could buy one of those tornado thingys in the back of SCC:) other than that my list would be
8.5mm MSD ignition wires
iridium plugs
ultra SS pulley kit
SSR competition rims (15lbs)
cobb cai with custom heat shield
high-flow cat
2.5" custom pipes
SYMS muffler and headers
power chip
motor and tranny mounts
injectors
high volume fuel pump
cant think of anything else
 
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