Turbo on a rat bike: Could a TD04 spool a 440CC twin?

[oldhat]

So I bought an 1983 Kawasaki KZ440 LTD. I picked this bike for two or three big reasons. It's my first bike so I didn't want the displacement to be too big for me to handle, it's relatively lightweight (~320lbs. pre-weight reduction), it has a belt drive instead of chain drive so it rides nice and smooth and the LTD version comes with a 6 speed tranny and 40 extra CC instead of the normal KZ400 5 speed.

But what really attracted me to the KZ440 was the arrangement of the heads and exhaust, plus the belt drive. When I saw the belt, I thought "Hmm...supercharger?" But I don't know anything about supercharging.



I like the way the cylinders are in a horizontal V-twin formation, instead of front to back like on a Honda. There's not much space but enough to cram a turbo in between the stem and cylinders, with a custom exhaust. I was thinking 2 into 1 into the hotside, then the (straight pipe) exhaust. Getting the coldside back into the intake is going to be a bitch.

So I'm looking into different options for a turbo. So far I'm considering the IHI RHB3 off a Suzuki/Chevy Sprint:



The KKK KP31, off of a UKDM Smart Turbodiesel:



The KKK K03 (these came off VW GTIs, I think):



And also, the dream turbo, the "Tinnie Winnie" from MJMTurbos, but it's really expensive:



I even though about using a TD04 off a WRX but I'm not sure if 440CC would be able to spool it. Do you think it could?

The motor is in very good shape (150psi compression in both cylinders, although I want to get that up to 170psi after I rebuild it ) and I'm rebuilding the internals so I'm not too concerned about blowing the motor. The Kawasaki bottom end has a very good reputation for durability.

But I'd rather use a turbo since I'm used to them, they're lightweight and they sound awesome. There's a device so you can advance timing like crazy on this bike and there are a bunch of different options for carbs. Pretty much any Kawasaki carb will fit with a little work. Tuning a turbo without a computer and just a carb + points will be difficult but I think I'll gain a lot of knowledge in the process. The bike will be original, too.

Oh yeah, I'm adding an alcohol injection kit so it doesn't knock and, of course, fireballs.

The thing is, these small turbos are expensive, like more than I paid for the bike. Kinda ridiculous to spend that kind of money but whatever, I want to see if I can do it on this bike as a challenge and to beat other bikes with twice the displacement.

I know it's crazy and a stupid waste of money to try this but I don't have a Subaru to play with right now and I need something to do on the weekends to keep me from using drugs.

I bought a welder so making custom flanges and exhaust isn't too big of a deal.

I poked around HomemadeTurbo.com but it's infested with Honda guys complaining about VF39s blowing up their 1.6 liters. Surprisingly little useful info about motorcycle turbos. One Australian guy on the Kawasaki forums turboed his bike but he doesn't post there anymore.

So what do you think? Is there a place online where you can piece together turbos from scratch using old compressors, housings, flanges, etc? I'd rather do that instead of having to modifiy the hell out of an existing one.

[susiemk]

Turbocharging your first bike is not a good Idea.
The powerband will not be linear on boost & it will not be very easy to ride so you may kill yourself, this is why the old OEM turbo bikes (Kawasaki & Suzuki had turbo bikes in the 80's) were discontinued.

The easy way to turbo a Carb'd motor would be a draw-through system where the carb is mounted on the turbo inlet & boost & gas are force fed into the motor - this is the way the OLD Turbo Regals dealt with fueling in the days before the computer...

[oldhat]

I thought they were discontinued because no one would but them because of insurance and the Japanese government clamped down on the turbo wars in the 1980s.

Maybe I should just stick with monkeying around with carb jets and alcohol injection? The redline is like 11,000 RPM and I'd really like to be able to use all of that. Running on horrible gas here in California sucks (91 octane + additives = "premium") so I want something to get the most out of the motor.

I bought an awesome book called "Motorcycle Turbocharging, Supercharging and Nitrous Oxide" by Joe Haile so I'm not doing this totally blind. It seems doable. Difficult but doable. He recommended draw through systems on carbed bikes as well.

Still, there's something soooooo tempting about slapping a turbo on a sleeper looking bike. Seems to be a pretty popular thing to do on 250 Ninjas. Dunno, I'll keep reading before I make a decision.

[2slo4u]

Congrats on the new bike

Turbo bikes don't kill people. Being a dumbass and riding wheelies on a turbo bike kills people. Thats where the non linear power band is an issue. Go on youtube and search turbo motorcycle. There are TONS of guys doing it. You can comment on their threads and maybe get some advice on what size would work well.

Originally Posted by susiemk

Turbocharging your first bike is not a good Idea.
The powerband will not be linear on boost & it will not be very easy to ride so you may kill yourself, this is why the old OEM turbo bikes (Kawasaki & Suzuki had turbo bikes in the 80's) were discontinued.

The easy way to turbo a Carb'd motor would be a draw-through system where the carb is mounted on the turbo inlet & boost & gas are force fed into the motor - this is the way the OLD Turbo Regals dealt with fueling in the days before the computer...

[oldhat]

Thanks, 2slo4u.

There's a video of an Italian guy with a turbocharged Vespa on YouTube that absolutely rages. Sort of made me want to try something different, like him. I don't think anyone's turbo'ed a KZ440 before. I'd like to be the first.

I refuse to pop wheelies and I hate stunting. Not setting any land speed records or dragging this bike, either. There's something really enjoyable about the sound of spool and having the fan spinning one foot away from you instead of hidden behind a firewall would make riding the bike that much more fun. Like it's just you, the tires and the motor. That's it. Simple.

Mostly I want to do this because the technical challenge and the reward at the end would be awesome.

Also, flames.

[susiemk]

Hmmm, I read that folks where deresriticting the stock turbo bikes upping the boost & then running into walls!
They were not very powerful either as they were small motors I vaguely remember 70-80hp.

My old R1 had 136-139WHP stock, was my First bike & I survived the "novice" period riding it but the powerband was nice & linear-not a spike...

? if the bike will spool the turbo, but i bet it would make some boost as the RPM range is generally much higher on a bike than on a car.
Again Draw thru turbo is the way to go on a carb'd motor.

I am toying with the turbo scoot Idea myself, after watching the guys from PR run 7 second 1/8 miles & race (+beat) sportbikes on scooters....

[Slava]

you can also get a turbo from chainsaw

i put td04 on 150cc motor and it didn't spool it, but it did give a tiny bit more power

[susiemk]

Chainsaw turbo - Hmmmm....

Alot of my buds do the whole wheelie thing, but they usually graduate from speed freaks to slo wheelies like 3 MPH 12 o'clock wheelies, circle wheelies.....
No Real Wheelie guy has a turbo on thier bike, if anything it has a BIG sprocket reducing final drive & top speed...

[oldhat]

Originally Posted by Slava

you can also get a turbo from chainsaw

i put td04 on 150cc motor and it didn't spool it, but it did give a tiny bit more power

Whoa -- any links? That might be the perfect solution...

Here's a pic of a TD04-13C off a Volvo diesel that a guy is selling on Craigslist. Looks like a 440CC might be able to spool it:



Here's the Vespa turbo:

[mxpunk]

find yourself a old 500cc 2-stroke mx bike and try riding it around. dont pussy foot, get on it whenever you can.

now double that times 2..

if this is your first bike and you plan on riding it around i would suggest keeping this a track bike or getting some time under your belt before you decide to do this...

all the time & $$ you're going to spend on this..why not just get a used cbr1000rr or 954rr?? or any liter bike..135 rwhp + 400 lbs = insane faasstt

my f4i is fast enough for me!

but to answer your question..your 440cc v-bike isnt going to spool a td04.

it'd be like a gt35/42r on a 2.0 EJ engine..